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election eve

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: election eve

It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that will show you otherwise.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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George Duncan-2

Re: election eve

But now you can link online to those (even perhaps few) who will reinforce your (perhaps crazy) views

George Duncan

Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com

See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

Land: (505) 983-6895

Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then be a valuable delusion."

From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." Joanna Macy.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:28 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that will show you otherwise.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
-- 
Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: election eve

I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be required to use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things. Like a spelling corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking. Heavy on automated natural language processing, but with human oversight and an audit trail.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:31 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

But now you can link online to those (even perhaps few) who will reinforce your (perhaps crazy) views

George Duncan

Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com

See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

Land: (505) 983-6895

Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then be a valuable delusion."

From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." Joanna Macy.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:28 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that will show you otherwise.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
-- 
Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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Jochen Fromm-5

Re: election eve

In reply to this post by Frank Wimberly-2

Do you have an idea why so many people have voted for Trump despite all he has done? The cultural difference between the liberal urban centers and the conservative countryside can not be the only reason.

Is it FoxNews propaganda, racism or another unknown factor ?

-------- Original message --------

From: Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/5/20 21:08 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
-- 
Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: election eve

In reply to this post by Frank Wimberly-2

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/measuring-the-authoritarian-mind-set-of-trumps-followers/2020/10/01/23490cc8-ea38-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:46 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Is it FoxNews propaganda, racism or another unknown factor ?

-------- Original message --------

From: Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/5/20 21:08 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
-- 
Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

gepr

Re: election eve

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

It would be a great way to actually learn things if, rather than deleting it, it rejected it. So, you could formulate lots of assertions, toss them at the machine and it would tell you which ones are crazy and which ones might be closer to consensus truth. You might start with all politicians are lizard people. [Bzzzzt] OK. All politicians are Jews. [Bzzzt] Hm. All politicians are liars. [Ding] Pluto is a planet. [Bzzzt] Pluto is an asteroid. [Bzzzt] Pluto is a Roman god. [Ding] Roman gods are planets. [Bzzzt] Roman gods are asteroids. [Bzzzt] Sigh. We need to parallelize this thing.

On 11/5/20 12:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be required to use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things. Like a spelling corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking. Heavy on automated natural language processing, but with human oversight and an audit trail.

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

thompnickson2

Re: election eve

"It all depends on what the meaning if 'is' is." W. J. Clinton [Bzzzzzt!]

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

It would be a great way to actually learn things if, rather than deleting it, it rejected it. So, you could formulate lots of assertions, toss them at the machine and it would tell you which ones are crazy and which ones might be closer to consensus truth. You might start with all politicians are lizard people. [Bzzzzt] OK. All politicians are Jews. [Bzzzt] Hm. All politicians are liars. [Ding] Pluto is a planet. [Bzzzt] Pluto is an asteroid. [Bzzzt] Pluto is a Roman god. [Ding] Roman gods are planets. [Bzzzt] Roman gods are asteroids. [Bzzzt] Sigh. We need to parallelize this thing.

On 11/5/20 12:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be
> required to use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things. Like a spelling corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking. Heavy on automated natural language processing, but with human oversight and an audit trail.

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Gary Schiltz-4

Re: election eve

In reply to this post by Frank Wimberly-2

I think the rural vs urban split is one of the main factors. Rural people tend to be a lot more independent, less educated, and perhaps by a bit of an inferiority complex, more prone to denying science (think climate change and the Paris Accord). I also believe we Americans have a sense of entitlement, with part of the national mythos being that old expression "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" leading to belief that we have earned their special place in the world. Trump really plays that up. There is also certainly a mostly hidden undercurrent of racism (belief that black people generally are lazy - Google for "welfare queen") and cultural jingoism (belief that immigrants should assimilate and forget their home culture). And then there is distrust of the federal government and anything that might be considered socialist. I think we may ultimately discover that talk by the most liberal faction of the Democratic party may have scared a few centrists and invigorated the Republicans. There are other factors, but those are some of the strongest. Sad to say, but Trump may actually more accurately represent these values in us Americans.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 3:46 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Do you have an idea why so many people have voted for Trump despite all he has done? The cultural difference between the liberal urban centers and the conservative countryside can not be the only reason.

Is it FoxNews propaganda, racism or another unknown factor ?

-------- Original message --------
From: Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]>
Date: 11/5/20 21:08 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city vs living in the country. Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to take the things they wanted, even people.   We recognize that we have a better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]>

Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6

On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate. Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes. If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
>     Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
>     227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>     213+3+15+20+16 = 267

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