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Santa Fe Plaza Riot

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Thread/Post hygiene

Now you are starting to think right. If I were using Slack I’d definitely give this a thumbs-up! I suppose I should send out few hundred copies in longhand. There’s an app for that.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 4:29 PM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thread/Post hygiene

Ha! And a boon would be we can transform it arbitrarily onto any other domain-specific ontology. So, whatever is written about, say, evolutionary biology could be mapped ... [cough]metaphored... into a paper about, say,holography! If we can design aGANto well-fit the maps, then whatever "theory" we end up with will provide us with the explanation ofconsciousnessand solve the hard problem!

Man this technology thing is cool. Whatever was I thinking. >8^D

On 6/4/20 4:19 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think there should be a XML-based ontology format to encode our important conversations as a formal system. And not mere CSS3, there should be a whole XSL pipeline to generate Nick’s book. Everyone follow the rules or your e-mails will not validate and will be rejected by the mail server!

--

☣ uǝlƃ

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Steve Smith

the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

In reply to this post by gepr

Glen -

You have taken good humored sarcasm (Snark*) to "the next level" (another modern idiom I am just coming to recognize) here. It feels like you've captured FriAM-at-large pretty well here... or at least the arc of our discussions-of-late. Not only the discussions, but to some extent the "nut" of some of them.

Your spoof of an idea to ontologize the fruits of our discussions and the metaphorize them across domain-specific ontologies comes way too close to at least one holy grail of a project or two I've worked on (thus my references to a "Faceted Ontology". I'm not saying your snark is empty, nor that the holy grail I refer to was entirely unachievable, mostly just appreciating how well you nailed it here, and perhaps (en caricature?) captured some of what Nick has been wishing and hoping for...

Carry On,

- Steve

Ha! And a boon would be we can transform it arbitrarily onto any other domain-specific ontology. So, whatever is written about, say, evolutionary biology could be mapped ... [cough] metaphored ... into a paper about, say,holography! If we can design aGANto well-fit the maps, then whatever "theory" we end up with will provide us with the explanation ofconsciousnessand solve the hard problem!

Man this technology thing is cool. Whatever was I thinking. >8^D

On 6/4/20 4:19 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think there should be a XML-based ontology format to encode our important conversations as a formal system. And not mere CSS3, there should be a whole XSL pipeline to generate Nick’s book. Everyone follow the rules or your e-mails will not validate and will be rejected by the mail server!
-- 
☣ uǝlƃ
- .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -..
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thompnickson2

Re: Thread/Post hygiene

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Marcus,

The chief impediment to harvesting emails for first drafts of books is order and threading. I once spent a month trying to rescue a discussion amongst another group, which had much fewer spinoffs than we exhibit. I tried to design macros to get rid of redundancies, etc. in the end I gave up. Of course, one of the worst obstacles was my own larding. The other was automatic recapitulations of previous posts within previous posts ad infinitum.

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 5:19 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thread/Post hygiene

I think there should be a XML-based ontology format to encode our important conversations as a formal system. And not mere CSS3, there should be a whole XSL pipeline to generate Nick’s book. Everyone follow the rules or your e-mails will not validate and will be rejected by the mail server!

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 4:07 PM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thread/Post hygiene

I think there's a way to embed CSS. But this stuff is obnoxious to me. So I don't think I'll take the time to figure out how to do it. It's hard enough to look at myself in the mirror while doing this! 8^)

On 6/4/20 3:59 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

c'mon can't you get a <blink>BLINK!</blink> tag in there too?

--

☣ uǝlƃ

thompnickson2

Re: the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Oh. Gosh! Will somebody please explain the joke to me.

I get some of the joke. I mean the whole joke.

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 6:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

Glen -

Carry On,

- Steve

Ha! And a boon would be we can transform it arbitrarily onto any other domain-specific ontology. So, whatever is written about, say, evolutionary biology could be mapped ... [cough] metaphored ... into a paper about, say, holography! If we can design a GAN to well-fit the maps, then whatever "theory" we end up with will provide us with the explanation of consciousness and solve the hard problem!
Man this technology thing is cool. Whatever was I thinking. >8^D

On 6/4/20 4:19 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I think there should be a XML-based ontology format to encode our important conversations as a formal system. And not mere CSS3, there should be a whole XSL pipeline to generate Nick’s book. Everyone follow the rules or your e-mails will not validate and will be rejected by the mail server!
-- 
☣ uǝlƃ
- .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Frank Wimberly-2

Re: the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

Maybe all you need to know is GAN means generalized adversarial network.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020, 6:13 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Oh. Gosh! Will somebody please explain the joke to me.

I get some of the joke. I mean the whole joke.

n

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 6:08 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

Glen -
You have taken good humored sarcasm (Snark*) to "the next level" (another modern idiom I am just coming to recognize) here. It feels like you've captured FriAM-at-large pretty well here... or at least the arc of our discussions-of-late. Not only the discussions, but to some extent the "nut" of some of them.
Your spoof of an idea to ontologize the fruits of our discussions and the metaphorize them across domain-specific ontologies comes way too close to at least one holy grail of a project or two I've worked on (thus my references to a "Faceted Ontology". I'm not saying your snark is empty, nor that the holy grail I refer to was entirely unachievable, mostly just appreciating how well you nailed it here, and perhaps (en caricature?) captured some of what Nick has been wishing and hoping for...
Carry On,
- Steve
Ha! And a boon would be we can transform it arbitrarily onto any other domain-specific ontology. So, whatever is written about, say, evolutionary biology could be mapped ... [cough] metaphored ... into a paper about, say, holography! If we can design a GAN to well-fit the maps, then whatever "theory" we end up with will provide us with the explanation of consciousness and solve the hard problem!
Man this technology thing is cool. Whatever was I thinking. >8^D

On 6/4/20 4:19 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I think there should be a XML-based ontology format to encode our important conversations as a formal system. And not mere CSS3, there should be a whole XSL pipeline to generate Nick’s book. Everyone follow the rules or your e-mails will not validate and will be rejected by the mail server!
-- 
☣ uǝlƃ
- .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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- .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -..
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Steve Smith

Re: Thread/Post hygiene

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Marcus -

Now you are starting to think right. If I were using Slack I’d definitely give this a thumbs-up!

I suppose I should send out few hundred copies in longhand. There’s an app for that.

We need a markup language for specifying calligraphic flourishes...

Which reminds me that in all my rattling on about text *bold* and _italics_ conventions I never mentioned (nor was prompted/corrected to) Gruber's Markdown conventions. https://www.markdownguide.org/basic-syntax/

I'll try to at least adhere to those more-better rather than being seduced by Thunderbird's HTML formatting widgets.

- Steve

Steve Smith

Re: the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

In reply to this post by Frank Wimberly-2

Alan (Quartermain)-
> Maybe all you need to know is GAN means generalized adversarial network.

Thanks! I just twigged to the fact that we ARE a generalized
adversarial network of extraordinary gentlepersons.

- Tom Sawyer

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

The distinction between larding and "fully-formed responses" is intuitively like batch size for a neural net training. Somewhat surprisingly, small batches often work better than big batches.

On 6/4/20, 5:26 PM, "Friam on behalf of Steve Smith" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

Alan (Quartermain)-
> Maybe all you need to know is GAN means generalized adversarial network.

Thanks! I just twigged to the fact that we ARE a generalized
adversarial network of extraordinary gentlepersons.

- Tom Sawyer

- .... . -..-. . ...- --- .-.. ..- - .. --- -. -..-. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -..-. -... . -..-. .-.. .. ...- . -..-. ... - .-. . .- -- . -..
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Steve Smith

Re: the Snarking of the Bandersnatch

In "defense" of rule#4? of Fight Club, I can acknowledge for myself
that point-by-point larding can be a lazy and undisciplined form of
participation. Certainly when there are multiple (well formed?)
points, it can be useful to respond point-by-point.

Lardy, Lardy!

- Steve

> The distinction between larding and "fully-formed responses" is intuitively like batch size for a neural net training. Somewhat surprisingly, small batches often work better than big batches.
>

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Santa Fe Plaza Riot

In reply to this post by jon zingale

Today there’s a televised memorial service for George Floyd.

Moments ago I saw Al Sharpton giving a signature sermon about this stranger to an national audience of strangers. It seems more significant to grieve for a person that is a stranger, but who has a story that is familiar. Whatever cultural diversification that occurs naturally and is (supposedly) expensive to suppress seems like lower order bits and inconsequential. This is what always annoys me about Libertarians. It isn’t that they are selfish or cause harm, it is that they are just another set of more-or-less similar instances, and think they are special. But they are just as boring. They fail to create the entropy they claim is important.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 9:55 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe Plaza Riot

Marcus,

Your comment about televisions is part of my point about

resources and energy. I see the massive institutions and

structures that are in place to bring me globally syndicated

programming as being expensive and doing what it can

to constrain difference. Yet, places strike me as being

remarkably different. I don't really see the outrage around

Floyd as being a reliable sign for cultural differences as the

outrage strikes me as a kind of media event. Voter turn-out,

similarly, seems to rely on nation and imagined communities.

Jon

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Homo Hiveus or Bio Slime?

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Going back to "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn was pretty interesting.

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 12:07 PM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dave -

Interesting / recommended:

Movie — Mortal Engines. "We have to destroy London" London traveling around the globe destroying all other mobile cities.

Thanks... I have read the book and seen the movie. I've been a fan of Steam Punk since Gibson/Sterling coined the genre with "The Difference Engine", even though *most of it* is pretty weak, more like fan-fiction than anything else.   I suppose that Mortal Engines is closer to Diesel Punk which I also (can) enjoy.   The image of city-scale vehicles (with city styling, presumably pulled up by the roots and made mobile by giant traction engines) with what felt like collective personalities (from their residents, weighted by the powerful of course) with their own agency (at least a hunger to consume other cities for their fuel? and materials and citizenry?).

I'm a sucker for a good Post Apocalyptic and they have become wildly more clever over the decades.   Though going back to Canticle for Leibowitz and Wells' work is good too.

Book — SEVENEVES by Neal Stephenson. Black hole destroys moon, three arcologies (one a space station, one undersea, and one in Alaskan mine, survive but ethnic strife among the seven "races" (each the descendants of one of the Eves) survives as well.

I'm a big fan of Stephenson, starting with Zodiac and peaking with Snowcrash and Diamond Age.   Diamond Age was an epic in it's own right and virtually everything he has written since has been an Epic squared.   I did read Seveneves and enjoyed it as much as I have most/all of his other Epic^2 works.   I'm stuck halfway through "Fall; Dodge in Hell" which as you must know is somewhat focused on a dystopian (utopian for some) post-upload/AI future.

- Steve

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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

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