murder offsets
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https://youtu.be/PQbYk1p2cn8 -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Just read: in 2024, when it is expected to peak, Bitcoin mining in China alone will consume more power than the country of Italy.
Known server farms (excluding NSA, military, etc.) in the US use more energy per year than the country of England. But I am sure they are all "net zero." davew On Wed, Apr 14, 2021, at 1:31 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > > https://youtu.be/PQbYk1p2cn8 > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Yes, both bitcoin and gold mining are very expensive. Gold mines go down 2 miles down to mine rock that contains 5 gram gold per tonne of rock, extract the gold in a series of very complicated processes to take it to Fort Knox and store it deep underground so it can't be stolen. Bitcoin uses large amounts of electricity to power the computers to mine it. And it's all because humanity is too stupid to work out an efficient enough currency system causing people to seek alternative ways to store value. On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 at 21:46, Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote: Just read: in 2024, when it is expected to peak, Bitcoin mining in China alone will consume more power than the country of Italy. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Prof David West
I don't endorse POW (proof of work) cryptocurrency and barely POS(proof
of statke). Really what I might endorse is the underlying distributed ledger and potential for Smart Contracts... However- this is an interesting example of less than fully egregious bitcoin mining contexts: https://www.oceanfallsblockchain.com Conservation of energy would suggest that the extraction of electrical power from flowing water, subsequent negEntropy extraction and then re-introduction of the same energy back into the flowing water (as heat) is *relatively* benign. The very fact of the hydro-dam (built there some big part of a century ago) has it's own ecological impacts (salmon, the bear who eat them, the rainforest that likes those nutrient-rich gifts the bears leave on the forest floor), but no net energy or CO2 challenges? In principle, this hydro power *could* have been sent a hundred miles or more over copper power lines (including resistive load losses) to feed our *other* power-hungry appetites? It seems like energy-flow changes are fairly localized (the energy dissipated from an unimpeded river flow would have also been converted almost exclusively to heat to be carried away in the water? What of the Entropy? Was useful negEntropy somehow extracted and effectively "wasted" by dumping it into a Proof of Work distributed ledger representing BitCoin value? One could argue that there are much better uses of this negEntropy than inflating a strange Ponzi Bubble? My Father used to make the apology/excuse for his relative's moonshining as the most efficient way for folks on the inland side of the Cumberland Gap to monetize their ability to produce, process and deliver crops (i.g. corn) to market. Where farmers on the seaboard side could sell their corn, it was prohibitively expensive to haul corn to the Virginia Markets from W.VA and KY, but distilled "corn squeezin's" represented concentrating the "value" out of the sun falling on the corn, etc. The hydropower from the Great Bear waterhsed, would seem to be mined of it's negEntropy to create "value" in the form of BitCoin. I don't expect POW to continue much longer in the shadow of POS. I also wonder if when/if/as BitCoin value is maxed if the energy use will drop radically. Absent mining new coin, doesn't BitCoin operation degenerate to the same energy cost (covering transactions only) as other (POS) blockchain implementations? On 4/14/21 1:45 PM, Prof David West wrote: > Just read: in 2024, when it is expected to peak, Bitcoin mining in China alone will consume more power than the country of Italy. > > Known server farms (excluding NSA, military, etc.) in the US use more energy per year than the country of England. > > But I am sure they are all "net zero." > > davew > > > On Wed, Apr 14, 2021, at 1:31 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >> https://youtu.be/PQbYk1p2cn8 >> >> -- >> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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I am a strong supporter of Bitcoin. Sure there are negatives, it's not all just positive. There also are risks, Bitcoin could lose all it's value. The main reason why I support it is because it's probably one of the best ways to store value. With all the crazy printing of fiat currencies all around the world, is there a good argument that any fiat currency will keep it's value? I'd really like to listen to these arguments with an open mind. I'd also like to listen to arguments why any other way to store value is significantly better than Bitcoin. But, I'm not saying it's the only way to store value and I'm definitely not advocating to store all your value in Bitcoin. A portfolio where some portion, dependent on individual circumstances, is stored in Bitcoin is in my opinion very good. On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 at 22:46, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote: I don't endorse POW (proof of work) cryptocurrency and barely POS(proof - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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This isn't what you asked for. But I'd argue against storing value at all, anywhere. That's for 2 reasons: 1) often, not you or anyone here necessarily, what people who think 'storing value' really want is *rent* ... to make money without contributing productively. And 2) hoarding doesn't imply value. Money contributes to the world by it's *movement*, by changing hands. So a savings account or money market can (somewhat passively) help the world more than burying cash in your yard. But *spending* money helps the world in innumerable ways, especially when it's not to buy arbitrary stuff, but to encourage others to do work ... like .... [cough] ... write poetry or brew beer.
On April 14, 2021 2:49:55 PM PDT, Pieter Steenekamp <[hidden email]> wrote: >I am a strong supporter of Bitcoin. Sure there are negatives, it's not >all >just positive. There also are risks, Bitcoin could lose all it's value. >The >main reason why I support it is because it's probably one of the best >ways >to store value. With all the crazy printing of fiat currencies all >around >the world, is there a good argument that any fiat currency will keep >it's >value? I'd really like to listen to these arguments with an open mind. >I'd >also like to listen to arguments why any other way to store value is >significantly better than Bitcoin. >But, I'm not saying it's the only way to store value and I'm definitely >not >advocating to store all your value in Bitcoin. A portfolio where some >portion, dependent on individual circumstances, is stored in Bitcoin is >in >my opinion very good. -- glen ⛧ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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"
But I'd argue against storing value at all, anywhere " I assume you mean passive storing value like in fiat or crypto currency or for example art for the purpose of storing value. I agree with your sentiments, but I would not take it to the extreme. IMHO, to oil the wheels of productivity in society some storing of value in passive form is required. Like Tesla buying Bitcoin to store value. And I believe in personal responsibility, I want to store some of my value in liquid passive assets. I don't have any trust in fiat currency's ability to maintain its value for long periods, because governments all over the world are printing fiat money like there is no tomorrow. Maybe it's good, I don't have a clue, but I certainly don't think that's a good way to preserve the value of the currency for long periods. So, I choose to put a portion of my assets in Bitcoin. If disaster strikes and I need money in the future I don't want to necessarily sell off my stake in productive value storing (like a business, or shares in a company). On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 00:15, ⛧ glen <[hidden email]> wrote: This isn't what you asked for. But I'd argue against storing value at all, anywhere. That's for 2 reasons: 1) often, not you or anyone here necessarily, what people who think 'storing value' really want is *rent* ... to make money without contributing productively. And 2) hoarding doesn't imply value. Money contributes to the world by it's *movement*, by changing hands. So a savings account or money market can (somewhat passively) help the world more than burying cash in your yard. But *spending* money helps the world in innumerable ways, especially when it's not to buy arbitrary stuff, but to encourage others to do work ... like .... [cough] ... write poetry or brew beer. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Interesting higher-order possibilities.. Murder the buyers of murder offsets? https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/reviewedcom/2021/03/23/how-watch-dexter-season-9/6964094002/
On Apr 15, 2021, at 1:53 AM, Pieter Steenekamp <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp
That's completely reasonable. And I admit to having dabbled in *coins. But the larger issue of stocks and flows is more interesting. What interests me most is the use of stocks to harmonize a diversity of flow rates. There, storage is a means to an end, not an end in itself. And it's important to avoid over-reduction into a single (or too few) "materials" that are doing the flowing. The recent ERCOT problem in Texas is a good example. Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, flood irrigation, etc. <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-percenters>
So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? On 4/15/21 1:52 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote: > I assume you mean passive storing value like in fiat or crypto currency or for example art for the purpose of storing value. > I agree with your sentiments, but I would not take it to the extreme. IMHO, to oil the wheels of productivity in society some storing of value in passive form is required. Like Tesla buying Bitcoin to store value. And I believe in personal responsibility, I want to store some of my value in liquid passive assets. I don't have any trust in fiat currency's ability to maintain its value for long periods, because governments all over the world are printing fiat money like there is no tomorrow. Maybe it's good, I don't have a clue, but I certainly don't think that's a good way to preserve the value of the currency for long periods. So, I choose to put a portion of my assets in Bitcoin. If disaster strikes and I need money in the future I don't want to necessarily sell off my stake in productive value storing (like a business, or shares in a company). -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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< So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? > *Crypto* currency, in the other sense of the word -- shadow, weakly regulated. Marcus - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp
"if disaster strikes ..." What kinds of "disaster" are possible and probable? Given that list, which among them do not take down "cyberspace." ("Cyberspace is where your money is." John Perry Barlow) I know a lot of 'survivalists' and none of them would consider anything other than than a Krugerrand under the mattress as a realistic hedge against disaster. davew On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, at 2:52 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
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I think it's a good idea to plan for a disaster. If the disaster is global, I'd rather have Krugerrands than Bitcoin, but that's a false dichotomy. Maybe stuff that can be used directly is more preferable. Like more tinned food, water, seeds and tools and so on? On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 18:59, Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp
https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-is-booming-in-economically-challenged-argentina Technically *coins are as "fiat" as government currencies, having
nothing backing them. Bitcoin has a defined max # of 21M for
what *that* is worth. Fiat +/- ? I think our previous discussion (that fizzled?) on "what is
wealth for?" is being addressed here again. I appreciate Glen's
characterization as money being a quantity for stock and flow and
that *value* comes from flow, to the point that excessive hoarding
(stock) is not a good thing. Wealth (stored value?) is like anything else (including) free Energy... it is *at best* a means to another ends and must be considered in the context of what anyone might value (which varies with context). A healthy food forest and the knowledge/skill to maintain and propogate it might be fundamentally more valuable than a mattress full of krugerands (or kangaroos or maple leafs or trump-busts) in gold, or even cases of .45 ACP ammo or seeds, or cryptokeys loaded with Bitcoin. Oh yeah, and a functioning, healthy community?
On 4/15/21 2:52 AM, Pieter Steenekamp
wrote:
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In reply to this post by gepr
Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one.
https://theconversation.com/interstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-159092 And another one: https://www.theolympian.com/news/business/article250595449.html On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, flood irrigation, etc. <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-percenters> > > So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: water, again (was murder offsets)
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Again technology to the rescue... Nanotechnology for desalinization.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one. https://theconversation.com/interstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-159092 And another one: https://www.theolympian.com/news/business/article250595449.html On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, > flood irrigation, etc. > <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-per > centers> > > So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich people) when the tech's ready to scale.
On 4/19/21 7:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Again technology to the rescue... Nanotechnology for desalinization. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) > > Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one. > > https://theconversation.com/interstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-159092 > > And another one: > https://www.theolympian.com/news/business/article250595449.html > > On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >> Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, >> flood irrigation, etc. >> <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-per >> centers> >> >> So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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I should have linked this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/podcasts/ezra-klein-podcast-ted-chiang-transcript.html "It’s capitalism that wants to reduce costs and reduce costs by laying people off. It’s not that like all technology suddenly becomes benign in this world. But it’s like, in a world where we have really strong social safety nets, then you could maybe actually evaluate sort of the pros and cons of technology as a technology, as opposed to seeing it through how capitalism is going to use it against us. How are giant corporations going to use this to increase their profits at our expense?" On 4/19/21 8:01 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich people) when the tech's ready to scale. > > On 4/19/21 7:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> Again technology to the rescue... Nanotechnology for desalinization. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) >> >> Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one. >> >> https://theconversation.com/interstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-159092 >> >> And another one: >> https://www.theolympian.com/news/business/article250595449.html >> >> On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >>> Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, >>> flood irrigation, etc. >>> <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-per >>> centers> >>> >>> So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: water, again (was murder offsets)
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In reply to this post by gepr
I live in a small town Mossel Bay in South Africa with a semi-desert climate. We have a desalination plant that can supply +/- 60% of normal potable water usage. It's not for the rich people only, when the dams supplying water in normal years dry up, everybody, including the desperately poor people get potable water. If you allow me to go off-topic for a moment. Mossel Bay is in the Western Cape province of South Africa and we have plenty of what we call "swallows" here. It's people from Europe that own second properties and live here in the European winter when it's summer in South Africa. The summer before Covid my wife and I were hiking along the coast and we bump into a "swallow"couple from Switzerland and we started to chat to them. The woman told us she considers this to be the most beautiful place on earth. Afterwards we said wow!, coming from a Swiss, it must mean something. On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 17:01, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]> wrote: Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich people) when the tech's ready to scale. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: water, again (was murder offsets)
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In reply to this post by gepr
Corporations are collective intelligences -- people -- but they need someone to sell to. No point in owning all the air or water unless you have millions of people desperate to pay for it! But that said, horizons of five years are a long time for most companies. CEOs incentivized to extract every bit out of those short horizons to please their shareholders. And the shareholders are too selfish to achieve something like Elysium or even large private water desalination plants. Even if there is a small evil population that kills off the rest, I don't see how capitalism is going to lead to that.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:11 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) I should have linked this: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/podcasts/ezra-klein-podcast-ted-chiang-transcript.html "It’s capitalism that wants to reduce costs and reduce costs by laying people off. It’s not that like all technology suddenly becomes benign in this world. But it’s like, in a world where we have really strong social safety nets, then you could maybe actually evaluate sort of the pros and cons of technology as a technology, as opposed to seeing it through how capitalism is going to use it against us. How are giant corporations going to use this to increase their profits at our expense?" On 4/19/21 8:01 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich people) when the tech's ready to scale. > > On 4/19/21 7:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> Again technology to the rescue... Nanotechnology for desalinization. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) >> >> Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one. >> >> https://theconversation.com/interstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-alon >> g-with-the-climate-159092 >> >> And another one: >> https://www.theolympian.com/news/business/article250595449.html >> >> On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >>> Another good example is water rights across states given watersheds, >>> flood irrigation, etc. >>> <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/arizona-water-one-p >>> er >>> centers> >>> >>> So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve? > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: water, again (was murder offsets)
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 17:49, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote: Corporations are collective intelligences -- people -- but they need someone to sell to. No point in owning all the air or water unless you have millions of people desperate to pay for it! But that said, horizons of five years are a long time for most companies. CEOs incentivized to extract every bit out of those short horizons to please their shareholders. And the shareholders are too selfish to achieve something like Elysium or even large private water desalination plants. Even if there is a small evil population that kills off the rest, I don't see how capitalism is going to lead to that. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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