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it's world logic day!

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gepr

it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday

> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.

> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.

> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

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Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

Frank Wimberly-2

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by gepr

In 1963 I was taking Philosophy 12, Introduction to Formal Logic, at Berkeley. The professor at some point during the semester said that he used to teach other lower division courses but once he was discussing the meaning of "reality" and some student had a psychotic break. He was then relegated to teaching logic, at least at the lower division level.

I always wondered if he made that story up. His name was Benson Mates.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 8:48 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
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Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

gepr

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

Its funny how a non-logician presupposes he has a better definition of logic than others. The arrogance is debilitating.

On 1/14/21 8:31 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.
>
> Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,
>
> Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

Glen,

My definition arises from a logician, perhaps the foremost American logician. I just did a quick run though some dictionary definitions of "logic", and the one I offer does not seem to be particularly exceptional. I wonder if the "celebratory" announcement was even written by a logician, given that it left out the evaluation at the core of saying that an argument is "logical". Finally, I am startled to be hauled before the court of FRIAM on the grounds of "arrogance". I would have thought that arrogance was our most endearing feature. Each of us -- including you, my friend -- feels qualified to re-examine any doctrine, no matter how authoritative and time-honored. We are the little lad in the fable THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. I would not have it otherwise. Would you?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

Its funny how a non-logician presupposes he has a better definition of logic than others. The arrogance is debilitating.

On 1/14/21 8:31 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.
>
> Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,
>
> Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the
> definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

No, I still disagree. IFF thinking holistically is the only way to think rightly, THEN thinking holistically is the only logical way to think.

But we are about to be bickering over definitions, rather than clarifying meanings. So long as you know that there is normative dimension in how I understand “logic”, and I know that for you, there isn’t, that in your usage there is truth-seeking argument that is not logical, then we probably will bore other people if we go on arguing.

But I love you like a brother,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
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mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

gepr

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

I tend to follow the standard diagnostic caveat that some thing isn't a problem until/unless it *interferes* with one's daily activities. And the dose is the poison. Arrogance (or over-confidence), as Jon pointed out one time can be quite useful and appropriate in some circumstances. (I don't find it "endearing". But I admit it can be useful.) But when it interferes with your understanding, as your insistence about your understanding of logic *does*, then it's inappropriate and not useful.

You are debilitating yourself by this particular over-confidence. I don't think Merle is in the same boat. But I don't have time to respond to her contribution just yet.

E.g. here's my favorite definition of logic: "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."

On 1/14/21 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> My definition arises from a logician, perhaps the foremost American logician. I just did a quick run though some dictionary definitions of "logic", and the one I offer does not seem to be particularly exceptional. I wonder if the "celebratory" announcement was even written by a logician, given that it left out the evaluation at the core of saying that an argument is "logical". Finally, I am startled to be hauled before the court of FRIAM on the grounds of "arrogance". I would have thought that arrogance was our most endearing feature. Each of us -- including you, my friend -- feels qualified to re-examine any doctrine, no matter how authoritative and time-honored. We are the little lad in the fable THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. I would not have it otherwise. Would you?

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

"if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."

Oh, surely this is a more heterodox definition than the one I offered.

Glen, I have to say this: You are at least as arrogant as I am, and I love you for it.

So there,

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 1:26 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

You are debilitating yourself by this particular over-confidence. I don't think Merle is in the same boat. But I don't have time to respond to her contribution just yet.

E.g. here's my favorite definition of logic: "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."

On 1/14/21 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> My definition arises from a logician, perhaps the foremost American logician. I just did a quick run though some dictionary definitions of "logic", and the one I offer does not seem to be particularly exceptional. I wonder if the "celebratory" announcement was even written by a logician, given that it left out the evaluation at the core of saying that an argument is "logical". Finally, I am startled to be hauled before the court of FRIAM on the grounds of "arrogance". I would have thought that arrogance was our most endearing feature. Each of us -- including you, my friend -- feels qualified to re-examine any doctrine, no matter how authoritative and time-honored. We are the little lad in the fable THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. I would not have it otherwise. Would you?

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gepr

Re: it's world logic day!

Ha! It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. [sigh] Arrogance isn't the problem. It's *this* particular arrogance that is debilitating.

On 1/14/21 11:33 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Glen, I have to say this: You are */at least/* as arrogant as I am, */and I love you for it/*/. /

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Unless one believes AI isn’t possible, or that machine learning doesn’t make holistic assessments, this seems pretty ridiculous. It is all implemented on logic.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 10:55 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday

>

>

> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.

>

> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.

>

> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--

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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

Steve Smith

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by gepr

this whole conversation seems so (il)logical <Pffft!>
> Its funny how a non-logician presupposes he has a better definition of logic than others. The arrogance is debilitating.
>
> On 1/14/21 8:31 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.
>>
>> Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,
>>
>> Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

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David Eric Smith

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

I also found the branch to normativity odd. Took listening to several rounds of this joust to find quite the right metaphor to express why.

If I suddenly became Chaitin, and cared more than anything else about which numbers were random and which weren’t, I would be saddled with a need for criteria by which to assign such attributions. That would blossom into a whole system to study kinds of order and what-else there might be where they are absent, and there goes that lifetime.

If I wonder whether a series of thought events is ordered, and whether the way it is ordered would also be shared by some other set of thought events so that they could be understood as some kind of family, I would then need to pursue a theory of what kinds of order thought-events can have. Since I am NOT a logician, and look in through the window as the elves work, I can only say that that is what the work looks like to me. The question whether conditions of order can be worked out seems to me much wider than an effort to develop true positions, and also not dependent on values of rightness.

If someone asserted to me that a capacity for ordered thought, which one might recognize and be able to use deliberatively even if it were not one’s first impulse, I could not help but hear such an assertion in context of

https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025

Eric

On Jan 14, 2021, at 2:14 PM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, I still disagree. IFF thinking holistically is the only way to think rightly, THEN thinking holistically is the only logical way to think.

But we are about to be bickering over definitions, rather than clarifying meanings. So long as you know that there is normative dimension in how I understand “logic”, and I know that for you, there isn’t, that in your usage there is truth-seeking argument that is not logical, then we probably will bore other people if we go on arguing.

But I love you like a brother,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

There's no "only way" brother dear.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 12:15 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, I still disagree. IFF thinking holistically is the only way to think rightly, THEN thinking holistically is the only logical way to think.

But we are about to be bickering over definitions, rather than clarifying meanings. So long as you know that there is normative dimension in how I understand “logic”, and I know that for you, there isn’t, that in your usage there is truth-seeking argument that is not logical, then we probably will bore other people if we go on arguing.

But I love you like a brother,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @merle110

gepr

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by David Eric Smith

Both EricS and Marcus launched in the direction I want to go, which I *think* ends in parallel Turing machines. Modern AI/ML is clearly a success. And I'd argue that its success depends fundamentally on its multi-paradigm modeling (or as it makes more sense to me, multiple "models of computation" -- MoCs). Some MoCs target ordering directly (to relax from or tighten to total ordering). Some MoCs attempt to ignore as much ordering as possible and satisfy some set of weakest constraining predicates.

But the important thing (I think) is how the MoCs are [dis]assembled into and out of working things.

We have process calculi that handle parallelism well enough. But, in my ignorance, they seem "classical" (for a lack of a better word) rather than constructive. What I think we need are constructive models (like Turing machines) for the [de]composition of cooperating collections of logics. And I speculate that a proto use case for such are inconsistency robust IT systems. But perhaps a better one would be how human sensorimotor systems handle contradictory streams of information (e.g. the physiology of synaesthesia).

I tried several months ago, in my inadequate way, to surf whatever work I could find on parallel Turing machines, but got distracted. If anyone has any short-cuts to hand my lazy @ss, I'd appreciate it.

Regardless, Merle's objection sounds like *any* one logic will (of course) fail to represent everything. And the extent to which we can change logics so that we choose the one fit to purpose, what we *want* of Logic is a way to construct executives that can do the fit-to-purpose selection given whatever context *and/or* compose encapsulated logics so that the composition is more expressive than the components.

Sorry if that's incoherent. I'm trying to watch talks on logic while writing this.

On 1/14/21 12:29 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
> I also found the branch to normativity odd. Took listening to several rounds of this joust to find quite the right metaphor to express why.
>
> If I suddenly became Chaitin, and cared more than anything else about which numbers were random and which weren’t, I would be saddled with a need for criteria by which to assign such attributions. That would blossom into a whole system to study kinds of order and what-else there might be where they are absent, and there goes that lifetime.
>
> If I wonder whether a series of thought events is ordered, and whether the way it is ordered would also be shared by some other set of thought events so that they could be understood as some kind of family, I would then need to pursue a theory of what kinds of order thought-events can have. Since I am NOT a logician, and look in through the window as the elves work, I can only say that that is what the work looks like to me. The question whether conditions of order can be worked out seems to me much wider than an effort to develop true positions, and also not dependent on values of rightness.
>
> If someone asserted to me that a capacity for ordered thought, which one might recognize and be able to use deliberatively even if it were not one’s first impulse, I could not help but hear such an assertion in context of
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025 <https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025>
>

On 1/14/21 11:40 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Unless one believes AI isn’t possible, or that machine learning doesn’t make holistic assessments, this seems pretty ridiculous. It is all implemented on logic.

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

thompnickson2

Re: it's world logic day!

And the extent to which we can find principles that guide us when we are trying to match logic's to problems, that to is logic.

N

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 3:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

Both EricS and Marcus launched in the direction I want to go, which I *think* ends in parallel Turing machines. Modern AI/ML is clearly a success. And I'd argue that its success depends fundamentally on its multi-paradigm modeling (or as it makes more sense to me, multiple "models of computation" -- MoCs). Some MoCs target ordering directly (to relax from or tighten to total ordering). Some MoCs attempt to ignore as much ordering as possible and satisfy some set of weakest constraining predicates.

But the important thing (I think) is how the MoCs are [dis]assembled into and out of working things.

We have process calculi that handle parallelism well enough. But, in my ignorance, they seem "classical" (for a lack of a better word) rather than constructive. What I think we need are constructive models (like Turing machines) for the [de]composition of cooperating collections of logics. And I speculate that a proto use case for such are inconsistency robust IT systems. But perhaps a better one would be how human sensorimotor systems handle contradictory streams of information (e.g. the physiology of synaesthesia).

I tried several months ago, in my inadequate way, to surf whatever work I could find on parallel Turing machines, but got distracted. If anyone has any short-cuts to hand my lazy @ss, I'd appreciate it.

Regardless, Merle's objection sounds like *any* one logic will (of course) fail to represent everything. And the extent to which we can change logics so that we choose the one fit to purpose, what we *want* of Logic is a way to construct executives that can do the fit-to-purpose selection given whatever context *and/or* compose encapsulated logics so that the composition is more expressive than the components.

Sorry if that's incoherent. I'm trying to watch talks on logic while writing this.

On 1/14/21 12:29 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:

> I also found the branch to normativity odd. Took listening to several rounds of this joust to find quite the right metaphor to express why.
>
> If I suddenly became Chaitin, and cared more than anything else about which numbers were random and which weren’t, I would be saddled with a need for criteria by which to assign such attributions. That would blossom into a whole system to study kinds of order and what-else there might be where they are absent, and there goes that lifetime.
>
> If I wonder whether a series of thought events is ordered, and whether the way it is ordered would also be shared by some other set of thought events so that they could be understood as some kind of family, I would then need to pursue a theory of what kinds of order thought-events can have. Since I am NOT a logician, and look in through the window as the elves work, I can only say that that is what the work looks like to me. The question whether conditions of order can be worked out seems to me much wider than an effort to develop true positions, and also not dependent on values of rightness.
>
> If someone asserted to me that a capacity for ordered thought, which
> one might recognize and be able to use deliberatively even if it were
> not one’s first impulse, I could not help but hear such an assertion
> in context of
> https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025
> <https://twitter.com/i/status/1346919171595137025>
>

On 1/14/21 11:40 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Unless one believes AI isn’t possible, or that machine learning doesn’t make holistic assessments, this seems pretty ridiculous. It is all implemented on logic.

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Gary Schiltz-4

Re: it's world logic day!

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

I would have thought that most members of FRIAM, when speaking of logic, are referring to the mathematical and/or computational concept of propositional logic, which has little if anything to do with a human dimension. You know, modus ponens, modus tollens, etc. Logic in that sense would exist even without the existence of biological beings (e.g. Homo sapiens) that use it as a part (not the only part) of their thinking process. But maybe I'm not grokking what y'all are talking about.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 1:55 PM Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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Frank Wimberly-2

Re: it's world logic day!

Gary,

I sent this to Nick offlist. I think we're on the same page.

" Who is the American logician you cite?

My opinion is that that formal logic is an axiomatic system and a part of pure mathematics. As such it has nothing to do with the world which is the subject of empirical science except that sometimes it can be a model of reasoning."

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:57 PM Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I would have thought that most members of FRIAM, when speaking of logic, are referring to the mathematical and/or computational concept of propositional logic, which has little if anything to do with a human dimension. You know, modus ponens, modus tollens, etc. Logic in that sense would exist even without the existence of biological beings (e.g. Homo sapiens) that use it as a part (not the only part) of their thinking process. But maybe I'm not grokking what y'all are talking about.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 1:55 PM Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
No, Nick. Thinking logically is just not thinking holistically, it misses the whole enchilada, and one of the reasons we're doomed--clumsy, but the best I have time to come up with now.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:24 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle,

I think the objection you have to logic flows from the misunderstanding of what logic is. If you define logic is thinking that leads to truth, then any thinking that leads to truth is logical, and the project of Logic Studies is the project of finding out what sorts of thinking lead that way. So, I would re-interpret your objection to be that logic, as we know it, is so constrained as to be dangerous and misleading. I don’t want us to give up on truth-seeking – as the pragmatists understood truth. [Glen, I stipulate your objections.]

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

I find this celebration very disturbing and even dangerous at a time when some are beginning to realize that logic alone is bereft of the complexity of all the ways of being in a more-than-human world.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:32 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Glen,

It’s nice to know that logic is being celebrated. Still – surprise!—I have a correction.

Logic ... [is] the principles of [right] reasoning,

Funny how, this article, a celebration of logic, buggers the definition of logic, leaving out it’s ethical dimension. Well, unless one believes that specious or fallacious logic is “logical”, logic is “good” thought, i.e. thought that leads probably to the truth.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of EthologTy and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:48 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] it's world logic day!

https://en.unesco.org/commemorations/worldlogicday
>
>
> The ability to think is one of the most defining features of humankind. In different cultures, the definition of humanity is associated with concepts such as consciousness, knowledge and reason. According to the classic western tradition, human beings are defined as “rational” or “logical animals”. Logic, as the investigation on the principles of reasoning, has been studied by many civilizations throughout history and, since its earliest formulations, logic has played an important role in the development of philosophy and the sciences.
>
> Despite its undeniable relevance to the development of knowledge, sciences and technologies, there is little public awareness on the importance of logic. The proclamation of World Logic Day by UNESCO, in association with the International Council for Philosophy and Human Sciences (CIPSH), intends to bring the intellectual history, conceptual significance and practical implications of logic to the attention of interdisciplinary science communities and the broader public.
>
> A dynamic and global annual celebration of World Logic Day aims at fostering international cooperation, promoting the development of logic, in both research and teaching, supporting the activities of associations, universities and other institutions involved with logic, and enhancing public understanding of logic and its implications for science, technology and innovation. Furthermore, the celebration of World Logic Day can also contribute to the promotion of a culture of peace, dialogue and mutual understanding, based on the advancement of education and science.

--
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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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