infrastructure and faux-diversity

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infrastructure and faux-diversity

gepr
What went wrong with the Texas power grid?
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Wholesale-power-prices-spiking-across-Texas-15951684.php

I haven't verified the information in the following tweet. But it's interesting.

https://twitter.com/amberwbooker/status/1361495140519587844?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
> The next time you vote, just remember that ERCOT (Texas' electrical grid) refuses to become part of the national electrical grid to avoid federal regulatory oversight. There are only three electrical grids in the contiguous United States - the Western Interconnection, the Eastern Interconnection, and ERCOT. The interconnectedness of the former is why places iwth much harsher winters than Texas don't experience the same types of outages. S many pe9ple ar literally freezing to death tonight because we live in a state that resents a fundamental tenet of federalism and is still salty about he Confederacy losing the Civil War.

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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

jon zingale
Maybe TX will thaw out by  Juneteenth
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth>  .



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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Gillian Densmore
I'm fallowing this just awful mess in a forum.  As I understand it, the physical places are to cold to send out electricity.  They're frozen, and can't get or send any.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 2:29 PM jon zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe TX will thaw out by  Juneteenth
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth>  .



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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

gepr
Yeah, and apparently, there's a mostly false meme that wind turbines are to blame. But most of the shortfall in power is due to failing natural gas and coal plants. Again, I have no knowledge of the details. Care is warranted when thinking about where to apply blame. And it doesn't really matter who's to blame while people are still suffering. Trouble is, by the time the emergency's over, nobody'll take the time do the post-mortem and apply blame appropriately. We'll all go back to ogling people on Instagram. [sigh]

On 2/16/21 1:31 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> I'm fallowing this just awful mess in a forum.  As I understand it, the physical places are to cold to send out electricity.  They're frozen, and can't get or send any.


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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Gillian Densmore
OMG yeah :(  it's...just awful. And not just placing it where it should, or if it's just basic physics, but then not going back to invest in more robust redundancies. A future tech forum I also follow has said Elon Musk as him and not CEO, might be able to get homes  batteries, possible the powerwalls.  Or large insulated batteries so that homes  freezing the worst can get heat and saftey while gaslines get defrosted.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 2:39 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, and apparently, there's a mostly false meme that wind turbines are to blame. But most of the shortfall in power is due to failing natural gas and coal plants. Again, I have no knowledge of the details. Care is warranted when thinking about where to apply blame. And it doesn't really matter who's to blame while people are still suffering. Trouble is, by the time the emergency's over, nobody'll take the time do the post-mortem and apply blame appropriately. We'll all go back to ogling people on Instagram. [sigh]

On 2/16/21 1:31 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> I'm fallowing this just awful mess in a forum.  As I understand it, the physical places are to cold to send out electricity.  They're frozen, and can't get or send any.


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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Steve Smith
In reply to this post by gepr

I got a good premonition of this event with a major DOE project some 15 years ago to build coupled ODE (ordinary differential equation) models of 20-something infrastructures...   energy infrastructures comprising about 1/6 of them...   the funding/goal was in response to terrorist threat but since we were also modeling natural disasters and cascading failures...   the variety of intra-US geopolitical idiosyncrasies was very eye-opening.  

Another obvious not-obvious "cut" in *all* infrastructure networks is the Mississippi river where *virtually all* networks are connected at the few Interstate  and rail bridges.   Modern communications does not depend as *much* on physical connections (e.g. microwave links) but we don't have any meaningful analogs for transportation, power lines, pipelines, raw and processed materials/food, etc.  

As I learned it then, TX is very self-isolating for myriad reasons ranging from being large enough and self-sufficient enough to "get away with it" (until now?) to something more like a collective "character flaw".  I suppose AK is *more* prone to these challenges and CA has the similar risks but different character flaws(?).  Private, for-profit concerns will naturally optimize for shareholders over stakeholders (think PG&E and the wildfire disasters of late), and short(er) over long(er) term concerns.

As a practical matter, it an emergent collective awareness of the supply-demand oscillations by the consumers in TX might reduce if not actually avert system collapses/failures.  Understanding *when and where* demand reduction (shared pain) can keep the systems under-stressed.   Rolling blackouts are a top-down imposition of this.  Human nature has *some* people upping their consumption in a very "hoarding-like" style... as if running your house furnace at 80F until the natural gas pressure or electric grid fails will give you more than perhaps an extra half-hour of comfort while increasing the chances of a failure significantly?  I have been known (in my youth) to drive faster when I was afraid I was going to run out of gas before the next refueling opportunity.

 

The above figures, from left to right, represent the infrastructure interdependencies "as-modeled", the same networks in a less critically *ordered* manner, and the same allowed to self-organize according to their weighted interdependencies.   The first two are hard to analyze without depth from stereo or motion parallax and interrogation capability, but the last also benefits significantly from interacting with the attractive/repulsive force equations.  None of them model explicitly the geospatial aspects of the electric grid, for example, but do capture the interdependency between pipeline, rail-delivery, OTR delivery, comms, finance, etc. and electricity production.  We did not get around to visualizing dynamic graph loading...   it is still somewhat of a holy grail in the biz.

On 2/16/21 2:21 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
What went wrong with the Texas power grid?
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Wholesale-power-prices-spiking-across-Texas-15951684.php

I haven't verified the information in the following tweet. But it's interesting.

https://twitter.com/amberwbooker/status/1361495140519587844?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
The next time you vote, just remember that ERCOT (Texas' electrical grid) refuses to become part of the national electrical grid to avoid federal regulatory oversight. There are only three electrical grids in the contiguous United States - the Western Interconnection, the Eastern Interconnection, and ERCOT. The interconnectedness of the former is why places iwth much harsher winters than Texas don't experience the same types of outages. S many pe9ple ar literally freezing to death tonight because we live in a state that resents a fundamental tenet of federalism and is still salty about he Confederacy losing the Civil War.

    

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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

gepr
Your graphs are interesting, even without interactivity or 3d. But more interesting still would be their (potential) evolution through time. If I understand the TX situation correctly, the "hoarding" behavior you mentioned was an accidental increase in load with which the traditional energy sources couldn't keep up ... less about bumping up the thermostat for a buffer and more about simple demand.

It would be interesting to see a dynamic graph of the load/demand.


On 2/16/21 7:58 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> We did not get around to visualizing dynamic graph loading...   it is still somewhat of a holy grail in the biz.

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Prof David West
Ted Koppel, NYT, wrote a book a few years back called "Lights Out." About the national power grid.

When published in 2016, the quoted assessment of DoD, FEMA, DOE, Congressional Energy Committees, and others was a 100% chance of catastrophic failure within 20 years.

Death toll in the millions within days and weeks of the failure.

The grid is an amalgam of mismatched hardware and, perhaps more importantly, software that prevents inter-operability — including within grid, e.g. Texas. (local power companies control what bespoke hardware and software is used: there are no standards).

The grid is already infected with malware installed by Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China.

The key components, giant house size transformers, cost from 10-150 million each and take 2-4 years to manufacture, so there are no backups.  And best part — all are made in China.

Despite the consensus that this will happen in the near future, no one is planning for what to do about it.

All kinds of other good news in the book.

True story: in 1971 an intrepid band of revolutionaries set out,  bombs in trunk, to blow up the railroad tracks between Salt Lake City, UT and Wendover, NV. Way out on the salt flats where no one would be hurt; trains given lots of advance warning. The rationale: nearly all of the ammunition used in Vietnam was transported by train from Baraboo, WI to San Diego, CA, via those tracks

Six left Minneapolis and one by one they lost their zeal and commitment until 2 were left. Contacted by a co-revolutionary in Portland, plans were changed, bombs were transferred, and the colleague used them to take out a single power transmission line, a carefully selected nexus in the northwest power grid, and caused a two-day blackout that affected Portland up to Tacoma, WA.

davew




On Wed, Feb 17, 2021, at 7:58 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
> Your graphs are interesting, even without interactivity or 3d. But more 
> interesting still would be their (potential) evolution through time. If 
> I understand the TX situation correctly, the "hoarding" behavior you 
> mentioned was an accidental increase in load with which the traditional 
> energy sources couldn't keep up ... less about bumping up the 
> thermostat for a buffer and more about simple demand.

> It would be interesting to see a dynamic graph of the load/demand.


> On 2/16/21 7:58 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> > We did not get around to visualizing dynamic graph loading...   it is still somewhat of a holy grail in the biz.

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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Marcus G. Daniels
A couple Powerwalls are $14k, plus solar panels.   There’s always the option of stockpiling gas for a generator.    When electricity is out gas stations can’t pump.  It has been like this for days in Oregon due to the consequences of an ice storm.

On Feb 17, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:


Ted Koppel, NYT, wrote a book a few years back called "Lights Out." About the national power grid.

When published in 2016, the quoted assessment of DoD, FEMA, DOE, Congressional Energy Committees, and others was a 100% chance of catastrophic failure within 20 years.

Death toll in the millions within days and weeks of the failure.

The grid is an amalgam of mismatched hardware and, perhaps more importantly, software that prevents inter-operability — including within grid, e.g. Texas. (local power companies control what bespoke hardware and software is used: there are no standards).

The grid is already infected with malware installed by Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China.

The key components, giant house size transformers, cost from 10-150 million each and take 2-4 years to manufacture, so there are no backups.  And best part — all are made in China.

Despite the consensus that this will happen in the near future, no one is planning for what to do about it.

All kinds of other good news in the book.

True story: in 1971 an intrepid band of revolutionaries set out,  bombs in trunk, to blow up the railroad tracks between Salt Lake City, UT and Wendover, NV. Way out on the salt flats where no one would be hurt; trains given lots of advance warning. The rationale: nearly all of the ammunition used in Vietnam was transported by train from Baraboo, WI to San Diego, CA, via those tracks

Six left Minneapolis and one by one they lost their zeal and commitment until 2 were left. Contacted by a co-revolutionary in Portland, plans were changed, bombs were transferred, and the colleague used them to take out a single power transmission line, a carefully selected nexus in the northwest power grid, and caused a two-day blackout that affected Portland up to Tacoma, WA.

davew




On Wed, Feb 17, 2021, at 7:58 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
> Your graphs are interesting, even without interactivity or 3d. But more 
> interesting still would be their (potential) evolution through time. If 
> I understand the TX situation correctly, the "hoarding" behavior you 
> mentioned was an accidental increase in load with which the traditional 
> energy sources couldn't keep up ... less about bumping up the 
> thermostat for a buffer and more about simple demand.

> It would be interesting to see a dynamic graph of the load/demand.


> On 2/16/21 7:58 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> > We did not get around to visualizing dynamic graph loading...   it is still somewhat of a holy grail in the biz.

> -- 
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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

gepr
Yeah. I'm no survivalist. But it takes almost trivial effort to plan just a little bit for redundancy. Maybe it's having lived off rice and beans for months or having gone camping as a kid. But living without electricity for a week or so doesn't seem that difficult if one's relatively healthy. Beyond a week, I think I'd start to have some trouble. I think CERT recommends 3 weeks of stockpiled resources. But it's difficult for me to imagine most renters achieving that, much less the [food|housing] insecure.

On 2/17/21 8:07 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> A couple Powerwalls are $14k, plus solar panels.   There’s always the option of stockpiling gas for a generator.    When electricity is out gas stations can’t pump.  It has been like this for days in Oregon due to the consequences of an ice storm.
>
>> On Feb 17, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Ted Koppel, NYT, wrote a book a few years back called "Lights Out." About the national power grid.
>>
>> When published in 2016, the quoted assessment of DoD, FEMA, DOE, Congressional Energy Committees, and others was a *100% chance of catastrophic failure within 20 years*.
>>
>> Death toll in the millions within days and weeks of the failure.
>>
>> The grid is an amalgam of mismatched hardware and, perhaps more importantly, software that prevents inter-operability — including within grid, e.g. Texas. (local power companies control what bespoke hardware and software is used: there are no standards).
>>
>> The grid is already infected with malware installed by Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China.
>>
>> The key components, giant house size transformers, cost from 10-150 million each and take 2-4 years to manufacture, so there are no backups.  And best part — all are made in China.
>>
>> Despite the consensus that this _will_ happen in the near future, no one is planning for what to do about it.
>>
>> All kinds of other good news in the book.
>>
>> True story: in 1971 an intrepid band of revolutionaries set out,  bombs in trunk, to blow up the railroad tracks between Salt Lake City, UT and Wendover, NV. Way out on the salt flats where no one would be hurt; trains given lots of advance warning. The rationale: nearly all of the ammunition used in Vietnam was transported by train from Baraboo, WI to San Diego, CA, via those tracks
>>
>> Six left Minneapolis and one by one they lost their zeal and commitment until 2 were left. Contacted by a co-revolutionary in Portland, plans were changed, bombs were transferred, and the colleague used them to take out a single power transmission line, a carefully selected nexus in the northwest power grid, and caused a two-day blackout that affected Portland up to Tacoma, WA.


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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

Steve Smith
In reply to this post by gepr
Glen -

Thanks...  that entire body of code is long lost to bit-rot and
sequestration behind a high security fence.   The bit of java/processing
I shared with you a year or more ago was a (lame) attempt to get back to
that, but with the dynamic aspect implicit...   interesting/useful
dynamic test data is hard to come by.   Weeks of work to resurrect a
fraction of years of work!   Sometimes that is a good ratio for refactoring.

I think the *coupling* of systems at different scales and in different
domains (power grid generation vs home consumption for example) is a
challenge for society... most of us don't really understand the
heat-flux dynamics of our own homes under normal conditions, so when we
go into extreme weather (or resource limitation/interruption) we are not
particularly prepared to make good decisions.   And all this while
operators/regulators/politicians are trying to set and execute policy
for the larger infrastructure.

From what little (and archaic) knowledge I have of energy-distribution
systems (electric and NG in particular), I think they have very limited
(but reflecting normal operating ranges, including "normal" extrema)
heuristics for control...  20 years ago it seems that expert operators
with decades of experience and intuition were very critical for
proper/safe/efficient operation of these grids.   It seems like a great
domain for machine learning, at the very least for smoothing out
transition regions between different operating regimes.  I believe that
shutting down any of these (sub)systems has huge implications for the
infrastructure.   The development of microgrid technology would seem to
have good potential for stabilizing regional grids.   TX, after this
incident,  would seem to be a good place to accelerate adoption.  CA
with the PG&E wind/wildfire problems would seem to be another good place
to focus on introduction of hybrid grids that have more local generation
and finer grain islanding capabilities.

I'm chatting later with my NREL client and may get some insight...   At
the very least the implications of having Rick Perry's (and successor
Broulliete) lame hand/brain off the tiller of the ship of DOE...  
Perry's recent public statements on the TX weather/power/energy crisis
are an extra level of absurd on top of the other myriad TX GOP voices
trying to play both sides of the politics.   I doubt that Perry learned
much of anything about DOE during his tenure.

- Steve

> Your graphs are interesting, even without interactivity or 3d. But more interesting still would be their (potential) evolution through time. If I understand the TX situation correctly, the "hoarding" behavior you mentioned was an accidental increase in load with which the traditional energy sources couldn't keep up ... less about bumping up the thermostat for a buffer and more about simple demand.
>
> It would be interesting to see a dynamic graph of the load/demand.
>
>
> On 2/16/21 7:58 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>> We did not get around to visualizing dynamic graph loading...   it is still somewhat of a holy grail in the biz.

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Re: infrastructure and faux-diversity

jon zingale
"I doubt that Perry learned much of anything about DOE during his tenure."

Much less anything about ODEs, mesh refinement methods for finite element
computations, or anything else that might actually be useful for addressing
such a problem. When I was living in Texas he seemed mostly concerned with
popularizing the hunting of wolves.



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