digital ethics
Locked
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So, based on our conversation of maps between computing and philosophy, I stumbled upon this book, which looks fun: The Words of Mathematics: An Etymological Dictionary of Mathematical Terms Used in English Steven Schwartzman http://www.amazon.com/The-Words-Mathematics-Etymological-Mathematical/dp/0883855119 The same google search that turned that up, also turned up several sites for bootleg PDFs of the book. Now, I really try to "do the right thing". I buy all my music. Even in cases where there's a dispute between the artist and the label, making it impossible to buy an album, I manage to find a way to send the artist some cash. (No, I don't think much about the label.) I _try_ to buy all my books. When I can't, I check them out and only xerox what I need. Also, I use bittorrent for things like debian packages or android ROM downloads. So, I'm aware of all the bootleg stuff that lies at my fingertips, there. But some switch flipped this time. When I saw those bootleg copies of what is otherwise a ~$100 book just sitting there, waiting to be downloaded, I _almost_ did it. I even thought about turning on my Tor proxy first. But, then I thought, hell, that book's at the Reed and Portland State libraries just down the street. Why in hell am I considering stealing it now? What's different? My only conclusion is that, somehow, the search engine has wormed it's way into my psyche. The fact that the bootlegs are so high up in google's page rank somehow almost put me over some threshold. -- =><= glen e. p. ropella 10001110101 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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But it sounds like it is out of your price range, at least for now. The author (nor the publisher) gets no money from you checking the book out of the library, so what are they losing from you pirating the book? Not that I am suggesting that is what you should do - it is an individual decision, after all - but I always find it interesting what people consider their 'boundary' and why.
-Arlo James Barnes ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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From an author's perspective:
1. By downloading a pirated copy, you lower the number of books a library will purchase which does cost the author. 2. Having a permanent copy has some value over a library book for many people. Ed __________ Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab) Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico 1017 Sierra Pinon On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:
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I too have had to build an ethics, so to speak. Books: For quite a while, I simply downloaded books to see if I wanted to buy them. I deleted the download and purchased the book if I liked the download. Also download books if I have the paper version.
EBooks: Similar. Then came the problem of formats. For example, Amazon only provides kindle format (.mobi/.azw) while tech books provide three formats (.pdf, .mobi, .epub). I found myself downloading pdf versions of .azw's because the silly books referred to "pages". Hopefully Az will finally come around, but until they do, and the book is not available in multiple formats, I'll download a pdf if need be. Almost all tech books are ebooks and on my iPad.
Video: I downloaded old TV shows which were not available otherwise. Also, our net was DSL, so too slow for streaming, even youtube! With a new faster network, cable, we're looking at Amazon primarily, and have Az Prime so many videos are available free. We also have NetFlix streaming but don't seem to use it. We stopped NetFlix DVDs when they hit a 30% failure rate. Not sure about Hulu, don't use it now. We record, TiVo, a LOT of sports and cooking shows and re-runs on SciFi channel.
Papers/Magazines: Thus far I have not payed for NYTimes. They let me read N a month, and I believe allow click-throughs to not count against the N. But I admit to defeating their count by going incognito in Chrome at times, maybe once a month. I've also found that much of their stuff finds itself elsewhere.
I believe a "digital library" solution would be helpful for paying for a lot of media. I'd gladly pay $D dollars for N subscriptions .. a "book shelf" like OReilly's Safari .. but much broader.
So I'm sorta in the middle, but mainly due to the media industries not "catching up". Between Az Prime and buying ebooks, I'm easily at $250/year .. yipes! My guess is that the big TV companies will try one way or another to make older shows available, but I don't think they've done it yet. Az doesn't offer pdf's yet but I'm sure they'll both improve their page references etc, and go multiformat sometime.
-- Owen On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Owen,
As you know, I've never had any real objection to your position and I agree as to the lack of a reasonable modern distribution system. I do get upset when the conversation approaches the "I think the price is too high so I'm justified in making an illegal copy." Ed __________ Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab) Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico 1017 Sierra Pinon On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
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What about independent researchers not associated with a library
system trying to browse academic papers (funded by taxpayers) held behind academic journal paywalls for $35/copy? -S --- -. . ..-. .. ... .... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... .... [hidden email] 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 office: (505) 995-0206 tollfree: (888) 414-3855 mobile: (505) 577-5828 fax: (505) 819-5952 tw: @redfishgroup skype: redfishgroup gvoice: (505) 216-6226 redfish.com | simtable.com On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Owen, > > As you know, I've never had any real objection to your position and I agree > as to the lack of a reasonable modern distribution system. I do get upset > when the conversation approaches the "I think the price is too high so I'm > justified in making an illegal copy." > > Ed > __________ > > Ed Angel > > Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS > Lab) > Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico > > 1017 Sierra Pinon > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > 505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email] > 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > > I too have had to build an ethics, so to speak. > > Books: For quite a while, I simply downloaded books to see if I wanted to > buy them. I deleted the download and purchased the book if I liked the > download. Also download books if I have the paper version. > > EBooks: Similar. Then came the problem of formats. For example, Amazon only > provides kindle format (.mobi/.azw) while tech books provide three formats > (.pdf, .mobi, .epub). I found myself downloading pdf versions of .azw's > because the silly books referred to "pages". Hopefully Az will finally come > around, but until they do, and the book is not available in multiple > formats, I'll download a pdf if need be. Almost all tech books are ebooks > and on my iPad. > > Video: I downloaded old TV shows which were not available otherwise. Also, > our net was DSL, so too slow for streaming, even youtube! With a new faster > network, cable, we're looking at Amazon primarily, and have Az Prime so many > videos are available free. We also have NetFlix streaming but don't seem to > use it. We stopped NetFlix DVDs when they hit a 30% failure rate. Not sure > about Hulu, don't use it now. We record, TiVo, a LOT of sports and cooking > shows and re-runs on SciFi channel. > > Papers/Magazines: Thus far I have not payed for NYTimes. They let me read N > a month, and I believe allow click-throughs to not count against the N. But > I admit to defeating their count by going incognito in Chrome at times, > maybe once a month. I've also found that much of their stuff finds itself > elsewhere. > > I believe a "digital library" solution would be helpful for paying for a lot > of media. I'd gladly pay $D dollars for N subscriptions .. a "book shelf" > like OReilly's Safari .. but much broader. > > So I'm sorta in the middle, but mainly due to the media industries not > "catching up". Between Az Prime and buying ebooks, I'm easily at $250/year > .. yipes! My guess is that the big TV companies will try one way or another > to make older shows available, but I don't think they've done it yet. Az > doesn't offer pdf's yet but I'm sure they'll both improve their page > references etc, and go multiformat sometime. > > -- Owen > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> From an author's perspective: >> >> 1. By downloading a pirated copy, you lower the number of books a library >> will purchase which does cost the author. >> 2. Having a permanent copy has some value over a library book for many >> people. >> >> Ed >> __________ >> >> Ed Angel >> >> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS >> Lab) >> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >> >> 1017 Sierra Pinon >> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >> 505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email] >> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >> >> >> On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote: >> >> But it sounds like it is out of your price range, at least for now. The >> author (nor the publisher) gets no money from you checking the book out of >> the library, so what are they losing from you pirating the book? Not that I >> am suggesting that is what you should do - it is an individual decision, >> after all - but I always find it interesting what people consider their >> 'boundary' and why. >> -Arlo James Barnes >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Although I've found:
- The recent revolution by scholars against paper tyranny hopeful - Many authors are posting their papers on their websites
The ACM was one of the worst, making the Turing Awards for-pay
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> wrote: What about independent researchers not associated with a library ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin
Seconded.
If a resource is available it ought to be availed of. Its upto the copyright holder to protect his work (and royalty stream). I'm trying to put together a "Pirate Party" in India for this. Sarbajit On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> wrote: What about independent researchers not associated with a library ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In keeping with "warez", you could have Journalz, Paperz, Resultz, Rezearch
:-) On Apr 19, 2013, at 8:25 AM, Sarbajit Roy <[hidden email]> wrote: > Seconded. > > If a resource is available it ought to be availed of. Its upto the copyright holder to protect his work (and royalty stream). > > I'm trying to put together a "Pirate Party" in India for this. > > Sarbajit > > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> wrote: > What about independent researchers not associated with a library > system trying to browse academic papers (funded by taxpayers) held > behind academic journal paywalls for $35/copy? > > -S ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Arlo Barnes
Well, my point wasn't really related to the price. It's more about cost:benefit, or perhaps low hanging fruit. The cops tell us to lock our doors, not because locks keep out serious criminals, but because it puts a tiny hurdle in front of the lazy opportunist criminals. Seeing the bootlegs so high up in the page rank is what makes it interesting, to me. It's so _easy_ to steal. That's what brings the subject so much closer to conversations about "the commons" or the public good. At what point does ubiquity _force_ membership in the commons? Arlo Barnes wrote at 04/18/2013 12:19 PM: > But it sounds like it is out of your price range, at least for now. The > author (nor the > publisher<http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/reminder-why-theres-no-tipjar.html>) > gets no money from you checking the book out of the library, so what are > they losing from you pirating the book? Not that I am suggesting that is > what you *should* do - it is an individual decision, after all - but I > always find it interesting what people consider their 'boundary' and why. -- =><= glen e. p. ropella Now may I present to you the basilisk? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4
I think this is a serious and yet sticky issue.
Most of us expect to get paid for our work yet we want access to others' work for free. Many us have (or have had in the past) institutions who provide such access as a perq or means to do OUR work. Among us there are many retirees and a significant number of independents/entrepreneurs who may or may not have that kind of access but do have that kind of appetite! Few of those in *literally* cannot afford these expenses if the material is important to us. We may not *like* spending that money and may be *spoiled* by having had access as a previous perq of employment (or education). Among us as well are a number of people living outside the first world or are apprentice/student class without any resources whatsoever. A $35 magazine subscription is out of there range, much less a $35 single paper. It just isn't gonna happen. We can tell them to "get a job", "enroll in a University", "immigrate to Europe/US" but that is hardly a solution if we want them to be included in our grand experiment. On the other hand, the publishing industry is in crisis... as readership (paid) goes down, their prices go up which drives (paid) readership down. And while we are screaming that "information just wants to be free!", we don't want it to go away or return to it's state of raw materials for lack of care? If we don't need publishers and journals and editors, then let's all just publish on our own blogs and web pages! There is still value added by peer review and copy editing and lots of other things. I don't *want* to pay for it, but I don't *want* it to go away either. BEER wants to be free, but if we don't pay for it, it will return to it's raw materials. It is *wonderful* that I can order any book I want from Amazon (anywhere in the world?) and have it arrive a few days later, or instantaneously if it is a free book. But it is sad that most all of the indies and now even many of the big boxes are going away. No venue to browse books except our computers? Go to your local bookstore and BUY a book, don't just go there to decide which one you want to order via Amazon and save 1/2 the price of the overpriced Latte you drank while browsing the books nobody will ever buy any books, just coffees?! - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
Ah... the Commons!
The "Little Red Hen" story is about a generous creature who tries to help create or enrich the Commons and ultimately must retreat to a selfish position because noone else will participate. Who here is as excited about contributing to or grooming the quality and value of the Commons as they are about benefiting from it, extracting from it? "WHERES MY FREE LUNCH?!" we chant! In Northern NM many of us still live on acequia systems... a commons built by the people for the people and used by the people and maintained by the people. On any ditch there are those who spend the winter sharpening their tools to be ready for "ditch cleaning day" in the spring and there are those who manage not to even have tools much less sharp ones to help make sure the ditch holds water and runs clean and easy. But *everyone* on the ditch wants their water. Oddly the ones most likely to be resentful when there isn't enough water, to blame those upstream for "taking too much" and those downstream for "not deserving" are likely to be the same one's whose tools are not sharp on ditch cleaning day. To be fair, I know that there are many here who contribute code, documentation, scholarly papers, etc. to the Commons... but these are often the folks most willing to pay subscriptions, to buy articles, to contribute to public radio, etc.? Or am I wrong? - Steve > Well, my point wasn't really related to the price. It's more about > cost:benefit, or perhaps low hanging fruit. The cops tell us to lock > our doors, not because locks keep out serious criminals, but because it > puts a tiny hurdle in front of the lazy opportunist criminals. > > Seeing the bootlegs so high up in the page rank is what makes it > interesting, to me. It's so _easy_ to steal. That's what brings the > subject so much closer to conversations about "the commons" or the > public good. > > At what point does ubiquity _force_ membership in the commons? > > Arlo Barnes wrote at 04/18/2013 12:19 PM: >> But it sounds like it is out of your price range, at least for now. The >> author (nor the >> publisher<http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/reminder-why-theres-no-tipjar.html>) >> gets no money from you checking the book out of the library, so what are >> they losing from you pirating the book? Not that I am suggesting that is >> what you *should* do - it is an individual decision, after all - but I >> always find it interesting what people consider their 'boundary' and why. > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
It's okay Glen, those results are high in the search because they're useful to people who search. The publisher is using the police powers of our government to enforce its monopoly on the book, but has chosen to limit its marketing efforts to the richest people in the world and told the rest to go f*** themselves. Us middle class semi eggheads are willing to pay $100/copy and we're easy to find because we all live together. What you're seeing is a new piece of common law being established. If a trademark holder does not defend a trademark by action in the marketplace, it loses it.
If a patent holder does not market a patented drug which could save lives, it loses the patent. If a publisher fails to make its copyrighted works available, it loses the copyright. These virtual property rights do not include the right to hoard, you have to exercise the right if you want to keep it. -- rec -- On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:40 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Ah, the local bookstore. I was in KMart yesterday to pick up a prescription, so I wandered the book/magazine aisle for a few minutes. A pretty humbling few minutes it was. -- rec --
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote: Ah... the Commons! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
Roger -
> It's okay Glen, those results are high in the search because they're > useful to people who search. The publisher is using the police powers > of our government to enforce its monopoly on the book, but has chosen > to limit its marketing efforts to the richest people in the world and > told the rest to go f*** themselves. Us middle class semi eggheads > are willing to pay $100/copy and we're easy to find because we all > live together. > > What you're seeing is a new piece of common law being established. > > If a trademark holder does not defend a trademark by action in the > marketplace, it loses it. > If a patent holder does not market a patented drug which could save > lives, it loses the patent. > If a publisher fails to make its copyrighted works available, it loses > the copyright. > > These virtual property rights do not include the right to hoard, you > have to exercise the right if you want to keep it. new piece of common law is being" *searched for* and ultimately will be established. As an egghead with a few bucks, I am happy to find when authors provide a PDF of their peer-reviewed, published paper on their professional or personal website (is this common law or a literal option acknowledged by all journal publishers or ???). But I am also happy to subscribe to the journals which are central to my own field... sadly in my case, I'm enough "all over the place" that this is prohibitive. So I settle for what I feel I can afford... and the ones I respect or identify with most. If I had an employer I would expect/hope/request that *they* support these publication efforts on my behalf as part of my professional environment. I think the argument you are making is an important one with huge, wide reaching implications. Before the Internet, it was moot as to whether a self-starting tech entrepreneur in Nepal or Sudan or the Seychelles wanted access to a particular article out of SPIE Optics as she would never even know it existed. Now she does, she wants it, and some of us would say either A) She deserves it or B) we *want* her to have that access. I think there *is* a class war afoot, and I don't mean that in the snotty dismissive way the self-righteous right uses the term. And yes, the publishers or the drug company or the megaMart consumer-productizers are *still* making record revenues despite a presumed worldwide recession, etc. But many of us middle-class eggheads (or not eggheads) are likely sitting on a pension fund or a 401k or an IRA that *depends* on those people continuing to get rich. They is us (to a limited extent). I don't think this undermines your argument, but I hope it refines it. What ARE the commons, and how do we transition from one mode of managing the commons to another without washing the babies down the acequia with the heads of the Patrons who yesterday said they *owned* the acequias? - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
Roger -
> Ah, the local bookstore. I was in KMart yesterday to pick up a > prescription, so I wandered the book/magazine aisle for a few minutes. > A pretty humbling few minutes it was. Ah, the corner drugstore run by your uncle's best friend! Now we have KMart/WalMart/Walgreens/CVS/... and where there *is* a corner drugstore it is filled with dusty, outdated product and the children of the ancient pharmacist are waiting for him to die so they can sell off the (now quite valuable) 400 sq ft hole in the wall and retire to the Caymans or Santa Fe or somewhere cool. There are still a handful of (albeit smaller) independent bookstores in SFe. But probably not because of most of us! ABQ's Bound to be Read went down but I think (I don't shop for *anything* in ABQ) Page 1 is still up and running as are dozens of small bookstores. Denver has 3 or 4 branches of Tattered Cover and many small (mostly used or specialty) bookstores, and Portland has the classic Powells with multiple outlets, as does (probably) every middle to large city in the country. It used to be that where you found one independent bookstore, you found several more just down the street or around the block. They thrived on eachother's existence, they along with the cafes, coffee shops, pubs and customers formed (nod to Owen) an ecology. Today you might find their dusty signs still hanging in front of boarded up windows... The swamp is drained and now it is dying. Will we miss it? KMart's book section is not the most representative place to be browsing books. It wasn't in 1976, and it is even less so now. Neither is WalMart's. I remember the glee I felt when the likes of B. Dalton, Walden, then Barnes and Noble, Hastings, and Borders popped up. Huge selections, discounts left and right! YAY! and I remember how sad I felt when the small independents (often with local and/or specialty interests presented) started closing (withering in the shadows of these giants). BOO! Then Amazon fired up. YAY! and then even the big chains went down in *their* shadow. BOO! Darwin at work. Too bad for all of them, they were apparently not fit! But it is *we* who define much about the fitness landscape... so really it is... "be careful what you ask for". We now have our e-readers tucked in our metrosexual bags while drinking our double-mocha non-fat latte's with an umbrella on top, wondering why they don't serve it in a real cup nor provide us with comfortable seating, nor co-locate with a nice newsstand or bookstore (Downtown Subscription lives! Albeit no longer downtown.). We will throw down $6 for something we could make at home for $.50 and yet we cry when authors and publishers want to get paid (so they can continue to write and publish, and of course, put money in OUR pension funds through our investments in them, the bastards!). Or am I mixing apples and orangatans again? We are like mountain men Jim Ragg and Bartle Bones standing at a bend in a river in the Rockies, scratching our asses, asking "where did all the Beav' go?", "When we first came here, we trapped hundreds of them every year right here on this very bend!" , "They'se gots more scarce every year, and now you can't hardly find a one of them!", "what are we gonna do?". ARE we like this? Sometimes I worry that we are! Nostalgic Rant aside, this is an important issue in my mind, and it doesn't give over easily to either extreme (Information just wants to be FREE!) nor (I wrote/invented/created it and by gawd, nobody but nobody can think that thought without my permission and profit!). And to a great extent , WE, the authors, coders, and investors in the stocks of these big companies (that we love to hate) are the ones creating the landscape. I *think* this is what Glen was touching on in the first place? The commons, what do we want it to look like, how do we establish and maintain it, etc. Perhaps this is partly what our own Doug Carmichael is on about with his GardenWorldPolitics.com ? - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
Roger -
Continuing to beat pedantically on the bloated rib cage of the dead horse (Carl, wanna join in, it's not Taiko but it *is* exciting!)... I am in the midst of a project with an individual/small company who holds patents in omnistereoscopic capture. The guy had an idea 20 years ago or so that wasn't really that unique, but required some vision to realize that what was impossible in 1995 might be doable in 2005 and nearly easy and useful in 2015. This is vaguely coming to pass. Maybe. <details of the tech pushed to the bottom for convenience of those interested only in the ethics aspect, not the tech> So, I'm working *with the man* because I know I can't work against him (easily). I want to spend my time and $$ on the implementation and application, not a legal patent challenge). I am designing a better *implementation* of the ideas presented in the patent disclosures and subsequent white papers, etc. And why should I? Why should we not work together? They have already spent hundreds of thousands (sadly, mostly on patent attorneys?). A rising tide lifts all ships. etc. (but what does a tsunami do?) Well, there are lots of answers to this, and none are easy. In many cases, the patent holder would patently(pun) NOT be interested in cooperating with me. In this case, my agenda and his/theirs seems aligned. We have NDAs in place and hopefully soon solid MOUs and eventually *contracts*. I see the patents in this case *helping* me. If I can nail the implementation well, it is in the patent holder's interest to use my implementation and for others who want to do what we are doing to use my implementation and their patents. But there will be yet others who want to roll their own, possibly "borrow" my work to smooth the path, etc. Where will my sympathies lie then? But I feel a little cheap and dirty too. Why can't anyone with the wherefore, glue up 100 cameras or so pointing in all directions at once and mathemagically blend/stitch/warp/shuffle/spindle/fold all those pixels into a high resolution, rectified stereo 360 movie on the fly? Why do they have to say "mother may I" to anyone? Because someone had the money to buy a patent? Because I'm investing a lot into trying to solve this problem well and don't want to be scooped? Or for my "competition" to unfairly exploit *my* work against me? At some point in this process I expect to trip over *someone else's* Patents which will be very distracting. I'm not applying for any patents, though I do mark my code with copyright notices and I do mark my drawings "Business Confidential" and I do give some care to who I give how many details to (nothing here worth a hoot really). <anecdotal aside about a patent from Sandia/Musetech that offended me moved to the end as well> Time to hitch the dead horse to the back of my Kubota and drag it down to the bosque for the rest of the scavengers to have their way with. Thanks for letting me vent my own frustration/confusion (like the gas buildup in the belly of the dead horse I am beating?)... about the changes we are in the midst of... it is truly the best of times and the worst of times I suppose. When I left LANL 5 years ago, this problem was verging on too hard for the likes of me (with much better backing (which of course evaporated) than now!)... now it appears it will be doable in the next year or two? Moore's law and the whole cohort of corollaries to it and all! - Steve Tech details The 3D movie industry and the 3D gaming and to a lesser extent TV industry has brought affordable, reasonably good Stereoscopy to the consumer market. Planetaria are going digital. Ambient Computing (nod to Guerin, Smith, et al) is coming up from the bottom. High resolution, high speed, high dynamic range digital cameras are becoming affordable (Point Grey Flea3/Blackfly, etc.).Anecdotal aside about dumb patents... In the VR world, the butt of many derisive jokes is when Creve Maples of Sandia and then MuseTech patented the notion of "navigating in a virtual world using a craft". ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Steve --
I think we do it not because every patented invention is an exemplar of the system, but because some patents are so brilliant that they make up for all the grief that the rest of them put us through. Sort of like public education?
It's funny that you bring up patents, because I've been writing up an invention for the past few days. Obviousness is a real sticky point. If it weren't somewhat obvious, no one would understand it when you explain it. But if it were really obvious, then why isn't everyone doing it already?
Consider the possibility that all of the morass of lobbying, patent trolling, copyright enforcement, tax avoidance, hedge funding, securities fraud, insider trading, election rigging, and so on that our society supports might actually be our way of keeping those devious people from finding even more damaging things to do. Our society, its legal and political system, is an ad hoc full employment act for the ethically challenged. We tolerate a population of unsavory things done by people in order to avoid the even less savory things they might do if we didn't give them some kind of sandbox to play in.
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Now here's a deal! SitePoint, a well respected tech publisher, will sell you ALL their ebooks/videos for $97. Wow! This is the sort of evolution I was discussing under the "library" idea.
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In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
Roger -
I fear you have something here... but I hate to give over to it. It is sending restless kids to detention where they learn from the rowdy kids there how to be rowdy, then send the rowdies to juvie where the nasties teach them... only to have 20% of our population in prison breeding new, more bad ways of being like antibiotic resistant strains of TB in the Soviet Prison system (read Paul Farmer), etc. ad nauseum. I used to use the excuse for not voting of not wanting to "encourage the bastards" I weighed in thrice to get and keep the neoCons out of the White House, but I still feel this way. I love my lawyer, he's a total tech weenie and he loves what we do, but I hate feeding the machine. Many of my non-science/non-engineering friends consider most of science/engineering to be a an "ad-hoc full employment act" for eggheads/geeks and that at least building nuclear weapons and redesigning the human genome keeps us from doing *more* dangerous stuff. Those English Majors were *watching* us when we poured various substances into beakers over flames only to watch (and smell) them erupt in disgustingly colored, frothy, exothermic and fouls smelling reactions... even then they knew what we would turn into! Not all of them find this kind of behaviour sexy (nod to Dede on Owen's behalf?). Good luck with your invention and I presume subsequent patent... I hope to be prolific enough to find a way infringe upon it! - Steve
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