Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
 
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Yeah but damn its hard to get reasonable broadband here. A couple of cans and string would beat what I got.
-- Owen
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Robert Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Doug: I've been thinking about the google difficulty with managing their own hardware.
It occurred to me that its history .. i.e. Apple didn't just invent a phone out of the blue, but instead had a long history of small personal devices. Their mp3 players. And they eventually evolved into a the iPod, a very sophisticated mp3 player plus much more. Then the iPhone.
This is also true for the Palm Treo. Palm had the PDA .. the Palm Pilot which had years of evolution and maturity. Only then did they attempt the jump to a phone.
In google's case, nada. No hardware history to speak of. So its not surprising that they did not succeed.
Also, google as a company lacks the coherence and focus that both apple and palm had. They knew their markets and they knew their customers. They had considerable experience directly connecting to the customer. Apple even went so far as to have stores .. very direct connection with their customers.
As much as I love the "google ecology" for mail, docs, search etc .. and admire their 2-factor authentication, I don't think of them as a single entity .. but a bunch of "loosely coupled, tightly aligned" services. But the internet is not a market, its a utility like water.
So a google phone is sorta like a Facebook phone, or a Twitter phone. Indeed, because they are both greatly engaged with communication, they make more sense to me than a google phone.
Android came out of google's several attempts to gain traction in the web/internet world, a "web os". But even there, they really didn't go the extra mile. I'd expect Comcast to build a more effective web device .. internet is a core competency for them. Google uses the internet and has data centers, but they are not in control of the network aspect.
So google has an identity problem. They apparently make their jack on advertisement. Would you expect an advertisement agency to build a good phone?
Where I think google does have identity is in the browser. Chrome is abs fab, must have, and way ahead of the pack. V8 redefined javascript. So they do own their destiny there, although unfortunately for them, chrome is not pre-installed on mac and windows. No problem for us but quite an issue for others.
Google really should be called Google Group, LLC with several separate competency centers that go whole hog after single, focused markets. G+ is a winner, but they need to treat it like Facebook, not part of google. Android is an OS. Sun found out selling OSs doesn't work. And worse, android, in the phone market, is split between the Unholy Trinity of carrier, handset provider, and google as OS.
So either google catches up with history, slowly, as done by apple and palm .. and plans for that type of evolutionary progress, or google will distract itself into other ventures like "big media" and even "banking" like google wallet.
Here's a question that focuses: which industry would google do best to acquire dominance? Should they buy Verizon or Comcast to own the internet they so well understand .. google fiber to the home? Should they buy Disney or CBS or MSNBC or Sony to become a media giant? Should they buy Amazon to become e-commerce giants? Should they buy AWS to own internet IT? Amazon is actually a great example .. I really do "get" Amazon and understand their evolution. Kindle, sure obvious. AWS, sure why not outsource IT if your already the best? Cloud music? Sure, already sell it so make it a "library in the sky".
Google refuses both history and evolution and focus. They say they're and advertisement company. Would you buy a phone from an advertisement company?
Until coherence, no success. -- Owen
On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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Nice analysis, Owen. Makes a lot of sense. Bruce On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: Doug: I've been thinking about the google difficulty with managing their own hardware. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
What is Google? was [Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4]
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Owen, Based on your analysis, Google is a venture-capital company that likes to play things close to the chest, and sometimes pretends to be an advertising agency. Their core stregnth is seeing projects through to deployment, and so long as individual project's R&D budgets stay in line with the proportion of projects that succeed, then who needs focus? So... Those phones didn't work? Well, we can always try again, because the majority of consumers have short memories. Or we can drop it and transition the resources to one of our 815 other projects that seem more promising. The only way to loose is to commit too much to a project that fails, so being less committed to follow-through is a form of protection! If that is what they are doing, you are right that their business model is structured screwy. On the other hand, if they were "Google Group LLC" then they would have to officially close companies when projects fail. Certainly they would be viewed more negatively if they "closed 7 companies last year" then if they "ended 7 beta-tests". Never mind that the beta-tests were 8 years long and had a dedicated staff of 350 people; carry on, nothing to see here. Eric -------- Eric Charles Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State, Altoona From: "Bruce Sherwood" <bruce.sherwood@gmail.com> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <friam@redfish.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:13:44 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post. Nice analysis, Owen. Makes a lot of sense. Bruce On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: Doug: I've been thinking about the google difficulty with managing their own hardware. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: What is Google? was [Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4]
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What is Google? It is a $50 billion company. That's what it is. --Doug On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Eric Charles <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doug Roberts
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
Chrome is nice, unless you need to run Java 7 applets or web start apps on a Mac. Chrome for Mac is 32-bit only, and Java 7 for Mac is 64-bit only. On Feb 26, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: What is Google? was [Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4]
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In reply to this post by Eric Charles
I appreciate the fresh view of the
situation, while I thoroughly admire Doug's "Pester Power"
(admire, not envy, nor aspire to), I think it assumes something
that is not neccesarily true about Google. They just are not who
we want them to be, and perhaps not even who we think they are?
Owen's analysis is very pointed and I find it convincing for the most part. For what it is worth, Google is still a very YOUNG company, despite it's breadth and depth. Think Apple and Microsoft *back* in the 80s, maybe early 90's. The founders are still clearly driving and apparently with NO contention (as opposed to Apple/Jobs in the 80s). I don't follow tech news closely, so I could be missing something. They claim that their model is to "do one thing really well", when in fact, they either do that one thing (search) really well, and dozens of others pretty well, and a few things poor to middling (but not for very long?), or they just keep expanding what they mean by that "one thing"? While they operate within the existing economy and technical landscape, they are also redefining it by their existence as well as their nature. Whatever we may think about their play in the telephone market, it *has* significantly changed the game all around. Would the iPhone be what it is if Android hadn't been introduced? “The best way to predict your future is to create it” - Abraham LincolnFor some reason, I have often heard this attributed to Steve Jobs... in any case, it would seem that Brin and Page (and Schmidt?) are doing their best to re-invent the concept. - Steve
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Re: What is Google? was [Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4]
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Well, yes. If an individual struggles
with a $50 billion company,
the individual will always lose, right? The post from Owen was not bad. Let us take a look at the origins and the good sides. They will have noticed your frustration by now. I think Google is (still) awesome. Google has the best software engineers, the best search engine, the best maps, and it tries to keep a balance between engineering (good) and marketing (evil). Apple had that balance in the beginning, too, when Jobs and Wozniak complemented each other perfectly. Much later after Wozniak left and Jobs took control, it shifted strongly towards marketing. It is questionable if the approach Apple uses now, i.e. offering the full stack from hardware to software wrapped in beautiful design does have a future, see for example https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2013/02/22/mac/ During the history of mankind, full stack solutions and totalitarian control in other systems lead to all kinds of evil *ism's. For example if we bring the political system in line with the economy ("Gleichschaltung"), then we get a kind of communism: - nationalism (merging of culture+political), - imperialism (merging of military+political), - rascism (merging of biology+political/ideological), - communism (merging of economy+political), - nazism, totalitarianism (merging of everything above) -J. On 02/26/2013 11:30 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
> What is Google? It is a $50 billion company. That's what it is. Who gets 96% of its revenue from advertising... which makes it abundantly NOTHING like any other company in the game at that scale? Clear channel owns a lot of billboards... radio stations, XM, etc... but at $6B revenue and no active founder(s) and no significant technology corner? Amazon is maybe the closest thing to compare to Google @ $62B revenue, no bricks and mortar, and only a few years older, still run by it's founder? Virgin Records/Atlantic/Galactic might be nearly as *eclectic* if a bit lower in revenue? I don't know what Branson's role is... beyond being the token Knight with a flambouyant reputation? I assume he calls the shots around Galactic if not Atlantic. Records has long since gotten folded into Capitol... I"m sure he's still making money from there, but not calling any shots? Apple, of course, while Jobs was still alive, had a tiny bit of the same breadth/depth/focus. $150B? Microsoft? Lumbering beast, getting bogged down by it's own (former) leadership. Who would have thought Apple would ever exceed MS in revenues? $75B? Apologies if I fumbled any numbers or facts here... it was a quick scan... I'm just not ready to sweep Google's behaviour, presence, circumstance under the carpet of "big corporation can't help itself". - Steve - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Doug -
Just to add fuel to your fire, Bechtel Corp was estimated to have $27B in revenues in 2010, by now they may also be $50B though without their cronies running the (top levels) of the gov't, maybe their revenues are down. Couldn't find a current estimate and of course, they are a privately held corp so no disclosures required! Aside from "owning" the US nuclear complex (via contracts and partnerships), and having a huge presence in petroleum and military engineering, it isn't clear they have any vision or "technical" agenda except to make money. In fact, I think Stephen Bechtel was quoted saying almost exactly that during the competition for the LANL contract. For better or worse. Saudi Aramco is roughly 10 times Google in Revenue ($500Bish?) but is also a *state-owned* corporation in a state which is essentially owned by a royal family... hmm... Bechtel corp is owned pretty much by a single family... and controls much of the energy (and weapons?) of a nation... hmmm...? - Steve > >> What is Google? It is a $50 billion company. That's what it is. > Who gets 96% of its revenue from advertising... which makes it > abundantly NOTHING like any other company in the game at that scale? > > Clear channel owns a lot of billboards... radio stations, XM, etc... > but at $6B revenue and no active founder(s) and no significant > technology corner? > > Amazon is maybe the closest thing to compare to Google @ $62B revenue, > no bricks and mortar, and only a few years older, still run by it's > founder? > > Virgin Records/Atlantic/Galactic might be nearly as *eclectic* if a > bit lower in revenue? I don't know what Branson's role is... beyond > being the token Knight with a flambouyant reputation? I assume he > calls the shots around Galactic if not Atlantic. Records has long > since gotten folded into Capitol... I"m sure he's still making money > from there, but not calling any shots? > > Apple, of course, while Jobs was still alive, had a tiny bit of the > same breadth/depth/focus. $150B? > > Microsoft? Lumbering beast, getting bogged down by it's own (former) > leadership. Who would have thought Apple would ever exceed MS in > revenues? $75B? > > Apologies if I fumbled any numbers or facts here... it was a quick > scan... I'm just not ready to sweep Google's behaviour, presence, > circumstance under the carpet of "big corporation can't help itself". > > - Steve > > - Steve > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4
Anyone else remember when google was this small internet search engine that hardly anyone had heard of because they were off using yahoo? (or possible lycos?)
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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How about altavista.digital.com?
On Feb 26, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: > Anyone else remember when google was this small internet search engine that hardly anyone had heard of because they were off using yahoo? (or possible lycos?) ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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And would things have gone the way they did if they kept the 'BackRub' name?
-Arlo James Barnes ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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Just to get it in before Doug can...
I don't think it would have included a "happy ending".
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
So here's a question. Suppose you're Casey Anthony or some person
featured on Dateline NBC. What happens if you're not a U.S. search engine user? Say you choose to use Yandex or Seznam or some other international search engine. What do the feds do to extend their reach into these countries, if anything? Would it have been sufficient for Casey just to use those engines, with .cz, or .ru suffixes? Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Cool it guys. I'm in Vegas. Sex on every corner. Sex at every table. Sex in the lobby. Sex, sex, sex. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doug Roberts
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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now to develop two algorithms: One for dougs raves about scantily clad women in las vegas and another for his rants about google. Maybe we can use this data in something useful.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
I can take the edge off of that for you... last time I was in Vegas,
I stayed at Caesers of all places (Thanksgiving trip?!) and across
the way was the 200 ft tall image of Donny and Marie on the side of
the ???xxxyyy hotel... being stripped down as we watched over
several days.
Put that image in your mind and it will all be ok...
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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Oh, thanks. Donny and Marie being stripped. Just thanks. On Feb 27, 2013 10:43 AM, "Steve Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Wow. 6 whole days without a Nexus 4 post.
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It would have been a great timelapse if I'd realized it was being done incrementally over the several days we were there. I think their smiles were the last to go... like Cheshire cats.
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