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Up and Out vs Down and in

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thompnickson2

Up and Out vs Down and in

All,

I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.

So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.

Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .

All the best,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Prof David West

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Nick,

May I make a simple suggestion?

Chill.

I recall the conversations at FRIAM the months after mr. T was elected — Apocalypse NOW! is a pretty accurate depiction. (And the same list of "safe havens was presented then.)

There is no conceivable path whereby the donald could become a dictator.

The only way that any president could do so is if the electoral college were eliminated and some parallel of the circumstances around the FDR era were in place. The constitution could be quickly amended to allow more than two terms, and off we go. I guarantee, if that were to happen it would be a dictatorship of the left, not the right.

I used to worry about an American Theocracy, but trump pretty much destroyed the likelihood of that.

As to how "we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world." First, recognize that "there is no pandemic; then figure out why almost half the electorate voted the way they did. (It was not FOR trump.)

it would not hurt to understand the difference between finite and infinite games and apply that knowledge to an analysis of US politics since, circa, 1900.

davew

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, at 6:04 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

All,

I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.

So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.

Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .

All the best,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

thompnickson2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Well, Dave, I am not assuaged. Like you, I worry about the Next Guy, perhaps Blumberg? The Marc Anthony, the Savior from the Center. Trump looses the election by a slim margin, briongs his base, with their guns, into the streets. Nobody wants the fight. Either he prevails and gets a third term, or Blumberg comes in and tries to clear the streets. Mayhem. Martial Law.

FWIW, read the following, courtesy of WIKIPEDIA,

Hitler rose to a place of prominence in the early years of the party. Being one of its best speakers, he was made leader after he threatened to leave otherwise. He was aided in part by his willingness to use violence in advancing his political objectives and to recruit party members who were willing to do the same. The Beer Hall Putsch in November 1923 and the later release of his book Mein Kampf (My Struggle) expanded Hitler's audience. In the mid-1920s, the party engaged in electoral battles in which Hitler participated as a speaker and organizer,^[a] as well as in street battles and violence between the Rotfrontkämpferbund and the Nazis' Sturmabteilung (SA). Through the late 1920s and early 1930s, the Nazis gathered enough electoral support to become the largest political party in the Reichstag, and Hitler's blend of political acuity, deceptiveness, and cunning converted the party's non-majority but plurality status into effective governing power in the ailing Weimar Republic of 1933

I agree that chilling is a good thing. Better a cold fear than a hot one.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 4:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

Nick,

May I make a simple suggestion?

Chill.

I recall the conversations at FRIAM the months after mr. T was elected — Apocalypse NOW! is a pretty accurate depiction. (And the same list of "safe havens was presented then.)

There is no conceivable path whereby the donald could become a dictator.

I used to worry about an American Theocracy, but trump pretty much destroyed the likelihood of that.

it would not hurt to understand the difference between finite and infinite games and apply that knowledge to an analysis of US politics since, circa, 1900.

davew

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, at 6:04 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

All,

I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.

So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.

Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .

All the best,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Prof David West

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Surely you don't believe any variant of that scenario?

Plausible scenarios.

Most likely — trump wins, Dems retain House, frenzied hysteria on behalf of losers, chaos, perhaps serial impeachments, governmental semi-paralysis, T continues to reshape the judiciary. Total disdain for govenment "careerists" in Executive branch, and Trump's way or the highway for personnel.

Less likely — trump loses, is escorted to Mar-A-Largo, Dems indulge in their own version of retaliation with T as a Greek chorus on Twitter 24-7 only to run again in 2024 and win in a massive landslide. Dems will NOT be able to learn from their mistakes and that is why they will inevitably go down in flames "next time."

Least likely — trump wins and wins both houses of congress. Four years of unbearable gloating, dubious policies tempered with good policy. E.g. progress on global warming and climate change which T will see as a magnanimous gesture and legacy as opposed to concession to his enemies.

The only possible examples of violent confrontation/conflict.

Most likely — sanctimonious "gangster mentality" leftist groups attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

Less likely but quite possible — armed standoffs ala Idaho and Nevada by anti-government right-wing fringe groups (but not racist groups like KKK).

In either case, standard law enforcement will suffice to quell.

davew

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, at 5:53 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Well, Dave, I am not assuaged. Like you, I worry about the Next Guy, perhaps Blumberg? The Marc Anthony, the Savior from the Center. Trump looses the election by a slim margin, briongs his base, with their guns, into the streets. Nobody wants the fight. Either he prevails and gets a third term, or Blumberg comes in and tries to clear the streets. Mayhem. Martial Law.

FWIW, read the following, courtesy of WIKIPEDIA,

Hitler rose to a place of prominence in the early years of the party. Being one of its best speakers, he was made leader after he threatened to leave otherwise. He was aided in part by his willingness to use violence in advancing his political objectives and to recruit party members who were willing to do the same. The Beer Hall Putsch in November 1923 and the later release of his book Mein Kampf (My Struggle) expanded Hitler's audience. In the mid-1920s, the party engaged in electoral battles in which Hitler participated as a speaker and organizer,^[a] as well as in street battles and violence between the Rotfrontkämpferbund and the Nazis' Sturmabteilung (SA). Through the late 1920s and early 1930s, the Nazis gathered enough electoral support to become the largest political party in the Reichstag, and Hitler's blend of political acuity, deceptiveness, and cunning converted the party's non-majority but plurality status into effective governing power in the ailing Weimar Republic of 1933
I agree that chilling is a good thing. Better a cold fear than a hot one.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 4:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

Nick,

May I make a simple suggestion?

Chill.

I recall the conversations at FRIAM the months after mr. T was elected — Apocalypse NOW! is a pretty accurate depiction. (And the same list of "safe havens was presented then.)

There is no conceivable path whereby the donald could become a dictator.

The only way that any president could do so is if the electoral college were eliminated and some parallel of the circumstances around the FDR era were in place. The constitution could be quickly amended to allow more than two terms, and off we go. I guarantee, if that were to happen it would be a dictatorship of the left, not the right.

I used to worry about an American Theocracy, but trump pretty much destroyed the likelihood of that.

As to how "we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world." First, recognize that "there is no pandemic; then figure out why almost half the electorate voted the way they did. (It was not FOR trump.)

it would not hurt to understand the difference between finite and infinite games and apply that knowledge to an analysis of US politics since, circa, 1900.

davew

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, at 6:04 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
All,

I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.

So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.

Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .

All the best,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

gepr

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

> I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
>
>
>
> So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
>
>
>
> Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
>

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Glen writes:

< What matters is to put some active MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. >

I'm seeing app-for-that opportunities. Have you heard of Lugg.com? Now enter Thugg.com, your quick access to a thug in your neighborhood. To busy to drive down to the protest in your neighborhood? No problem, hire one by the hour from your phone. Special offerings only payable by bitcoin. The great thing about this service is that the puncher and the punched may be siblings!

Marcus

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year, but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact within the year, will have limited spatial scope.

So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular and specific objective in order to answer my question.

For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry of left-wing authoritarians.

Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have immediate *and* long-term impact.

Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)

There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.

On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
>
>
>
> So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
>
>
>
> Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
>

--
☣ uǝlƃ

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

thompnickson2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by gepr

Glen, Marcus,

Thank you for your always surprising suggestions, for your thoughts outside the box.

I confess to being attracted to the pristine hypocrisy of HireAThug.com.

Speaking of Thuggs, I wonder how many of you know about the Wide Awakes. These were a paramilitary organization that paraded in the streets of Northern Cities for Lincoln during the 1860 election. Black capes and torches and staves. Wikipedia has a lovely entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes

Here is their banner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes#/media/File:Wide_Awakes_Banner.tif FRIAM mentalists should go for the slogan, "mind, eye" and the animal behaviorists amongst should endorse the rampant ferrets.

It seems like a bad idea whose time has come

I wonder if the New Wide Awakes could become the youth organization of the Lincoln Project (https://lincolnproject.us/, that organization of centrist republicans that has dedicated itself to electing an anti-trump senate and president, even though, they concede, that requires them to vigorously support democrats in the current cycle.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year, but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact within the year, will have limited spatial scope.

So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular and specific objective in order to answer my question.

For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry of left-wing authoritarians.

Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have immediate *and* long-term impact.

Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)

There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.

On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what
> he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
>
>
>
> So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What
> do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
>
>
>
> Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
>

--
☣ uǝlƃ

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Prof David West

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Nick,

A model for the kind of enlightened discussion / social action of the type you might want to see put in place.

The Bellamy Clubs. Several thousand were formed in a loose confederation across the US — all inspired by Edward Bellamy's book (Science Fiction by the way), Looking Backward. They were a kind of socialist-utopian society.

I taught an honors course on "Utopian and Dystopian futures in literature and Film" with Edwards grandson, Michael Bellamy.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Glen, Marcus,
>
> Thank you for your always surprising suggestions, for your thoughts
> outside the box.
>
> I confess to being attracted to the pristine hypocrisy of HireAThug.com.
>
> Speaking of Thuggs, I wonder how many of you know about the Wide
> Awakes. These were a paramilitary organization that paraded in the
> streets of Northern Cities for Lincoln during the 1860 election. Black
> capes and torches and staves. Wikipedia has a lovely entry,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes
>
> Here is their banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes#/media/File:Wide_Awakes_Banner.tif FRIAM mentalists should go for the slogan, "mind, eye" and the animal behaviorists amongst should endorse the rampant ferrets.
>
> It seems like a bad idea whose time has come
>
> I wonder if the New Wide Awakes could become the youth organization of
> the Lincoln Project (https://lincolnproject.us/, that organization of
> centrist republicans that has dedicated itself to electing an
> anti-trump senate and president, even though, they concede, that
> requires them to vigorously support democrats in the current cycle.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in
>
> You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very
> bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback
> loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you
> can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year,
> but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next
> president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your
> question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that
> *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal
> scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd
> argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact
> within the year, will have limited spatial scope.
>
> So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with
> a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And
> your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian
> pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular
> and specific objective in order to answer my question.
>
> For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some
> impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support
> https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already
> have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect
> against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry
> of left-wing authoritarians.
>
> Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After
> School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The
> elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all
> kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those
> around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have
> immediate *and* long-term impact.
>
> Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and
> protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our
> streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture
> that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described
> right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It
> doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active
> MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy
> an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)
>
> There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and
> specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.
>
> On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what
> > he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What
> > do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
> >
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Very interesting and a great idea, Prof. West. Do you still have a copy of your curriculum for the honors course?

I'm just back from Ottawa, where I met with the Board of the Canadian Institute for Conflict Resolution. I discussed our (CED's) new generative dialogue process based on "the adjacent possible", and we now have a new partnership with them to develop facilitator training for leading community dialogues on climate impacts and survival strategies. I am also meeting in Seattle next month with a science fiction writer who is part of a consortium of the best current science fiction writers, offering courses to help aspiring sci/fi/fantasy writers think about the future. I have a feeling that their curriculum might help our facilitator training.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nick,

A model for the kind of enlightened discussion / social action of the type you might want to see put in place.

The Bellamy Clubs. Several thousand were formed in a loose confederation across the US — all inspired by Edward Bellamy's book (Science Fiction by the way), Looking Backward. They were a kind of socialist-utopian society.

I taught an honors course on "Utopian and Dystopian futures in literature and Film" with Edwards grandson, Michael Bellamy.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Glen, Marcus,
>
> Thank you for your always surprising suggestions, for your thoughts
> outside the box.
>
> I confess to being attracted to the pristine hypocrisy of HireAThug.com.
>
> Speaking of Thuggs, I wonder how many of you know about the Wide
> Awakes. These were a paramilitary organization that paraded in the
> streets of Northern Cities for Lincoln during the 1860 election. Black
> capes and torches and staves. Wikipedia has a lovely entry,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes
>
> Here is their banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes#/media/File:Wide_Awakes_Banner.tif FRIAM mentalists should go for the slogan, "mind, eye" and the animal behaviorists amongst should endorse the rampant ferrets.
>
> It seems like a bad idea whose time has come
>
> I wonder if the New Wide Awakes could become the youth organization of
> the Lincoln Project (https://lincolnproject.us/, that organization of
> centrist republicans that has dedicated itself to electing an
> anti-trump senate and president, even though, they concede, that
> requires them to vigorously support democrats in the current cycle.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in
>
> You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very
> bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback
> loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you
> can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year,
> but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next
> president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your
> question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that
> *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal
> scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd
> argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact
> within the year, will have limited spatial scope.
>
> So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with
> a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And
> your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian
> pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular
> and specific objective in order to answer my question.
>
> For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some
> impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support
> https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already
> have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect
> against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry
> of left-wing authoritarians.
>
> Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After
> School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The
> elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all
> kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those
> around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have
> immediate *and* long-term impact.
>
> Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and
> protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our
> streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture
> that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described
> right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It
> doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active
> MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy
> an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)
>
> There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and
> specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.
>
> On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what
> > he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What
> > do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
> >
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

Just think of the possibilities.

https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Frank Wimberly-2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Marc Raibert founded Boston Dynamics after he and I published a paper "Tabular Control of Balance in a Dynamic Legged System" in IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics. I am not suggesting a causal link.

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 12:25 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just think of the possibilities.

https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

I think it must be destiny. Small flamethrowers, maybe.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Monday, February 10, 2020 at 11:32 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

Marc Raibert founded Boston Dynamics after he and I published a paper "Tabular Control of Balance in a Dynamic Legged System" in IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics. I am not suggesting a causal link.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 12:25 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just think of the possibilities.

https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

thompnickson2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Can it beg, sit, and lie down? My god! It could walk itself!!!!

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 12:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

I think it must be destiny. Small flamethrowers, maybe.

Marc Raibert founded Boston Dynamics after he and I published a paper "Tabular Control of Balance in a Dynamic Legged System" in IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics. I am not suggesting a causal link.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 12:25 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just think of the possibilities.

https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

Still some tricks to learn.. https://youtu.be/QxysX27CA1o?t=560

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Monday, February 10, 2020 at 12:01 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in

Can it beg, sit, and lie down? My god! It could walk itself!!!!

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

I think it must be destiny. Small flamethrowers, maybe.

Marc Raibert founded Boston Dynamics after he and I published a paper "Tabular Control of Balance in a Dynamic Legged System" in IEEE Systems, Man, and Cybernetics. I am not suggesting a causal link.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 12:25 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just think of the possibilities.

https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Prof David West

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Hi Merle,

I am sorry, but the curriculum is long buried on a Zip drive somewhere in a container in Utah.

An idea for your science fiction writer consortium: write a novel that was mostly utopian with enough conflict to make it interesting and readable that could be a point source for something like the Bellamy clubs. There are three SF novels that I know of that prompted significant social action:

Bellamy's Looking Backward of course;

Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, which led to the founding of the Church of All Worlds - still extant; and

Hubbard's Battleground Earth, which gave us Scientology.

The latter one points out the dangers of such an effort, but the first two were pretty positive.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

Very interesting and a great idea, Prof. West. Do you still have a copy of your curriculum for the honors course?

I'm just back from Ottawa, where I met with the Board of the Canadian Institute for Conflict Resolution. I discussed our (CED's) new generative dialogue process based on "the adjacent possible", and we now have a new partnership with them to develop facilitator training for leading community dialogues on climate impacts and survival strategies. I am also meeting in Seattle next month with a science fiction writer who is part of a consortium of the best current science fiction writers, offering courses to help aspiring sci/fi/fantasy writers think about the future. I have a feeling that their curriculum might help our facilitator training.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick,

A model for the kind of enlightened discussion / social action of the type you might want to see put in place.

The Bellamy Clubs. Several thousand were formed in a loose confederation across the US — all inspired by Edward Bellamy's book (Science Fiction by the way), Looking Backward. They were a kind of socialist-utopian society.

I taught an honors course on "Utopian and Dystopian futures in literature and Film" with Edwards grandson, Michael Bellamy.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Glen, Marcus,
>
> Thank you for your always surprising suggestions, for your thoughts
> outside the box.
>
> I confess to being attracted to the pristine hypocrisy of HireAThug.com.
>
> Speaking of Thuggs, I wonder how many of you know about the Wide
> Awakes. These were a paramilitary organization that paraded in the
> streets of Northern Cities for Lincoln during the 1860 election. Black
> capes and torches and staves. Wikipedia has a lovely entry,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes
>
> Here is their banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes#/media/File:Wide_Awakes_Banner.tif FRIAM mentalists should go for the slogan, "mind, eye" and the animal behaviorists amongst should endorse the rampant ferrets.
>
> It seems like a bad idea whose time has come
>
> I wonder if the New Wide Awakes could become the youth organization of
> the Lincoln Project (https://lincolnproject.us/, that organization of
> centrist republicans that has dedicated itself to electing an
> anti-trump senate and president, even though, they concede, that
> requires them to vigorously support democrats in the current cycle.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in
>
> You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very
> bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback
> loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you
> can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year,
> but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next
> president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your
> question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that
> *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal
> scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd
> argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact
> within the year, will have limited spatial scope.
>
> So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with
> a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And
> your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian
> pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular
> and specific objective in order to answer my question.
>
> For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some
> impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support
> https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already
> have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect
> against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry
> of left-wing authoritarians.
>
> Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After
> School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The
> elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all
> kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those
> around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have
> immediate *and* long-term impact.
>
> Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and
> protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our
> streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture
> that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described
> right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It
> doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active
> MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy
> an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)
>
> There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and
> specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.
>
> On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what
> > he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What
> > do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
> >
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Prof David West

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

There was a Sixty Minutes episode a few years back re: who owned the largest automated army on the planet? It was all about Boston Dynamics robots. But the punch line was that Google owns them, and hence the Army.

Depending on whether or not employees or executives control Google politics, it is not clear whose side the robots would be on.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> Just think of the possibilities.
>
> https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot
>
>
>
>
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Frank Wimberly-2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

I believe Google sold Boston Dynamics to SoftBank Group of Japan. Raibert appears to be the Chairman still.

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 12:24 AM Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:

There was a Sixty Minutes episode a few years back re: who owned the largest automated army on the planet? It was all about Boston Dynamics robots. But the punch line was that Google owns them, and hence the Army.

Depending on whether or not employees or executives control Google politics, it is not clear whose side the robots would be on.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Just think of the possibilities.
>
> https://www.bostondynamics.com/spot
>
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>

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Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Up and Out vs Down and in

In reply to this post by Prof David West

Thanks for the good advice, Dave. I missed the Hubbard one, but Bellamy and Heinlein are deep in my memory.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:21 AM Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Merle,

I am sorry, but the curriculum is long buried on a Zip drive somewhere in a container in Utah.

An idea for your science fiction writer consortium: write a novel that was mostly utopian with enough conflict to make it interesting and readable that could be a point source for something like the Bellamy clubs. There are three SF novels that I know of that prompted significant social action:

Bellamy's Looking Backward of course;
Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, which led to the founding of the Church of All Worlds - still extant; and
Hubbard's Battleground Earth, which gave us Scientology.

The latter one points out the dangers of such an effort, but the first two were pretty positive.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
Very interesting and a great idea, Prof. West. Do you still have a copy of your curriculum for the honors course?

I'm just back from Ottawa, where I met with the Board of the Canadian Institute for Conflict Resolution. I discussed our (CED's) new generative dialogue process based on "the adjacent possible", and we now have a new partnership with them to develop facilitator training for leading community dialogues on climate impacts and survival strategies. I am also meeting in Seattle next month with a science fiction writer who is part of a consortium of the best current science fiction writers, offering courses to help aspiring sci/fi/fantasy writers think about the future. I have a feeling that their curriculum might help our facilitator training.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM Prof David West <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick,

A model for the kind of enlightened discussion / social action of the type you might want to see put in place.

The Bellamy Clubs. Several thousand were formed in a loose confederation across the US — all inspired by Edward Bellamy's book (Science Fiction by the way), Looking Backward. They were a kind of socialist-utopian society.

I taught an honors course on "Utopian and Dystopian futures in literature and Film" with Edwards grandson, Michael Bellamy.

davew

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, at 7:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Glen, Marcus,
>
> Thank you for your always surprising suggestions, for your thoughts
> outside the box.
>
> I confess to being attracted to the pristine hypocrisy of HireAThug.com.
>
> Speaking of Thuggs, I wonder how many of you know about the Wide
> Awakes. These were a paramilitary organization that paraded in the
> streets of Northern Cities for Lincoln during the 1860 election. Black
> capes and torches and staves. Wikipedia has a lovely entry,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes
>
> Here is their banner:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes#/media/File:Wide_Awakes_Banner.tif FRIAM mentalists should go for the slogan, "mind, eye" and the animal behaviorists amongst should endorse the rampant ferrets.
>
> It seems like a bad idea whose time has come
>
> I wonder if the New Wide Awakes could become the youth organization of
> the Lincoln Project (https://lincolnproject.us/, that organization of
> centrist republicans that has dedicated itself to electing an
> anti-trump senate and president, even though, they concede, that
> requires them to vigorously support democrats in the current cycle.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:04 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Up and Out vs Down and in
>
> You've hidden the most important part of your question at the very
> bottom: "in the next year". As always, the system contains feedback
> loops. And each loop has its own speed. There are lots of things you
> can do in the next year that won't show any impact *within* the year,
> but may show impact beyond the year. If you're worried about the next
> president, or the next, etc., then those are viable answers to your
> question. There are *some* things you can do during the year that
> *might* show impact within the year. But just as there's a temporal
> scope to any action, there's also a *spatial* scope to any action. I'd
> argue that the actions you might take this year that might show impact
> within the year, will have limited spatial scope.
>
> So, I'll treat you like one of my clients and answer your question with
> a question. 8^) What do you *want* to see happen within the year? And
> your stated objective can't be vague like "reverse the authoritarian
> pandemic". What does that even mean? No, you have to state a particular
> and specific objective in order to answer my question.
>
> For example, one action *I* can take this year, that may show some
> impact this year, but more likely in the coming decades, is to support
> https://fairvotewa.org/, which I'll be doing this evening. You already
> have that option in Santa Fe, I think. Ideally, RCV should help protect
> against either your worry of right-wing authoritarians or Dave's worry
> of left-wing authoritarians.
>
> Another example from left field might be to help start/run an After
> School Satan club <https://afterschoolsatan.com/> near you. The
> elevation of the Adversary is critical to fighting group-think of all
> kinds. If your particular and specific objective is to make those
> around you deeper thinkers, then that sort of action will have
> immediate *and* long-term impact.
>
> Yet another answer is to join Antifa. Put on some body armor and
> protect the [counter]protesters from the (actual) fascists roaming our
> streets with guns, chains, and bats. (Contrary to Dave's conjecture
> that left-wing fascism is more likely, we have self-described
> right-wing fascists *actually* roaming our streets as we speak.) It
> doesn't matter if you're old or fat. What matters is to put some active
> MEAT between the fascists and the [couter]protesters. Or at least buy
> an Iron Front bumper sticker. 8^)
>
> There are sooooo many possible actions. But without a particular and
> specific objective, you're relegated to hand-wringing.
>
> On 2/8/20 9:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > I have a friend who reads a lot of history and thinks HARD about what
> > he reads. For months he has been reassuring me about the state of American democracy because, as he said, Trump wasn’t a well focused dictator like Hitler. But I saw him last Monday and he asked me, with an air of genuine panic, “What do I do?” The reason for his new panic was his realization that Hitler had not always been a focused dictator, but had been entrained, over his career, to play just those themes that would rouse the German people to War. The impeachment process had convinced him that Trump was gradually developing the focus of a proper Hitler.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I passed the question he asked me onto the group on Friday. “What
> > do we do?” What struck me was that many of us took the question to be, “where do we best escape to?” Options included New Zealand, Costa Rica, Bermuda, Canada, Italy, etc. These answers startled me, because, of course, the question I meant to be asking was, how do we use our considerable talent, skill, knowledge, resources, and technical knowhow to do everything in our power to reverse the authoritarian pandemic that is sweeping the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now some of you, perhaps many, that we in any kind of an emergency, or even if we are, that there is anything we might do about it, or even that there is any particular reason to save American democracy. I am happy to have that discussion, too. However, from those of you who share my panic, I would love to hear suggestions about what I (and others) might do in the next year .
> >
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff