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The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

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J T Johnson

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent for
the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers" topic an
interesting problem that converges on interesting questions in how we
design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere, anytime.

So for what it's worth....

-tj

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org

>From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
Thursday, November 30, 2006

A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A rainbow has
one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to count
indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum, both
perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism toward
even numbers.
Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two, "whereas in
English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words in
English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors the
odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that favors the
even numbers 2, 4, and 6."

The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why different
cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other. The
ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the ancient
Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the idea
of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered to be
masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the concept
is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the other." So
a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his parents.
Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good and
superior" in relation to yin.

He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably faded in
the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
"seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought and
ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even numbers
female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the West,
odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."

The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is temporarily
available free through Sage Publications.

http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi<http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/479>
/content/abstract/26/6/479
<http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/479>
_______________________________________________
MEA mailing list
MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea

--
==========================================
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
www.analyticjournalism.com
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.us

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."
-- Buckminster Fuller
==========================================
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Robert Holmes

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Some mistake, surely? An English rainbow has seven colours, not six. Hence
the mnemonic taught to all school children "Richard of York gave battle in
vain". (V for violet rather than purple).

R

On 11/30/06, J T Johnson <tom at jtjohnson.us> wrote:

>
> My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent for
> the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers" topic an
> interesting problem that converges on interesting questions in how we
> design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere, anytime.
>
> So for what it's worth....
>
> -tj
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
> Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
> Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
> Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
> Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
>
> In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
> colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A rainbow
> has
> one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to count
> indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum, both
> perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
> University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
> reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
> toward
> even numbers.
> Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
> difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
> Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two, "whereas
> in
> English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words in
> English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
> writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors the
> odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that favors
> the
> even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
> different
> cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other. The
> ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the ancient
> Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the idea
> of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered to be
> masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
> concept
> is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
> change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the other."
> So
> a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his parents.
> Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good and
>
> superior" in relation to yin.
>
> He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably faded in
> the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
> Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
> "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought and
> ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even numbers
> female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
> numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
> contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the
> West,
> odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is temporarily
> available free through Sage Publications.
>
> http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi
> <http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/479>
> /content/abstract/26/6/479
> <http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/479>
> _______________________________________________
> MEA mailing list
> MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
>
> --
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.us
>
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the
> existing model obsolete."
> -- Buckminster Fuller
> ==========================================
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>

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Michael Agar

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

In reply to this post by J T Johnson

Lots of interesting number/culture stuff out there. One of my
favorites are the languages with numeral classifiers, where whenever
you count you have to include a bit of morphology that describes
features of the objects being counted. Vaguely remember discussions
of "ethno-mathematics" as well, and a stream of anthro/cog science
grew up around observations that people could do math in context that
classroom evaluations said they couldn't do at all.

Mike

On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:

> My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original
> intent for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of
> numbers" topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting
> questions in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are
> applicable anywhere, anytime.
>
> So for what it's worth....
>
> -tj
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
> Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
> Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
> Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
> Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
>
> In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
> colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
> rainbow has
> one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
> count
> indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous
> spectrum, both
> perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
> University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
> reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western
> favoritism toward
> even numbers.
> Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
> difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
> Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
> "whereas in
> English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related
> words in
> English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
> writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that
> favors the
> odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
> favors the
> even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
> different
> cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the
> other. The
> ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
> ancient
> Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on
> the idea
> of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally
> considered to be
> masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
> concept
> is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
> change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
> other." So
> a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
> parents.
> Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as
> "good and
> superior" in relation to yin.
>
> He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
> faded in
> the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
> Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
> "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang
> thought and
> ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
> numbers
> female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
> numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
> contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in
> the West,
> odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
> temporarily
> available free through Sage Publications.
>
> http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
>
> _______________________________________________
> MEA mailing list
> MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
>
> --
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.us
>
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the
> existing model obsolete."
> -- Buckminster
> Fuller
> ==========================================
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

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Pamela McCorduck

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Tom, no apologies necessary to me, at least. I love this stuff.

Pamela

>
>> My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent
>> for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"
>> topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
>> in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,
>> anytime.

"If the only prayer you say in your life is thank you, that would
suffice."

Meister Eckhardt
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Dede Densmore-2

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

In reply to this post by J T Johnson

Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we
learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to
forget it and that definitely included indigo.

Dede

On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:

> My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent
> for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"
> topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
> in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,
> anytime.
>
> So for what it's worth....
>
> -tj
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
> Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
> Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
> Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
> Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
>
> ??????In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
> colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
> rainbow has
> one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
> count
> indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum,
> both
> perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
> University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
> reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
> toward
> even numbers.
> Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
> difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
> Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
> "whereas in
> English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words
> in
> English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
> writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors
> the
> odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
> favors the
> even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
> different
> cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other.
> The
> ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
> ancient
> Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the
> idea
> of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered
> to be
> masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
> concept
> is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
> change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
> other." So
> a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
> parents.
> Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good
> and
> superior" in relation to yin.
>
> He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
> faded in
> the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
> Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
> "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought
> and
> ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
> numbers
> female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
> numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
> contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the
> West,
> odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
> temporarily
> available free through Sage Publications.
>
> http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
>
> _______________________________________________
> MEA mailing list
> MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
>
> --
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c)???????????????????????????????? 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com???????????????? tom at jtjohnson.us
>
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the
> existing model obsolete."
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? -- Buckminster
> Fuller
> =======================================================================
> ===============================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

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James Steiner

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

So, why was indigo worthy of inclusion, while cyan was not?

~~James
http://www.turtlezero.com
(JA-86)

On 12/2/06, Dede Densmore <dede at backspaces.net> wrote:

> Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we
> learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to
> forget it and that definitely included indigo.
>
> Dede
>
> On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:
>
> > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent
> > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"
> > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
> > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,
> > anytime.
> >
> > So for what it's worth....
> >
> > -tj
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
> > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
> > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
> > Thursday, November 30, 2006
> >
> > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
> > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> >
> >
> > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
> > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
> > rainbow has
> > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
> > count
> > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum,
> > both
> > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
> > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
> > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
> > toward
> > even numbers.
> > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
> > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
> > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
> > "whereas in
> > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words
> > in
> > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
> > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors
> > the
> > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
> > favors the
> > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
> >
> > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
> > different
> > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other.
> > The
> > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
> > ancient
> > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the
> > idea
> > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered
> > to be
> > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
> > concept
> > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
> > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
> > other." So
> > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
> > parents.
> > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good
> > and
> > superior" in relation to yin.
> >
> > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
> > faded in
> > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
> > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
> > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought
> > and
> > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
> > numbers
> > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
> > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
> > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the
> > West,
> > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
> >
> > The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
> > temporarily
> > available free through Sage Publications.
> >
> > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MEA mailing list
> > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea

Robert Howard-2-3

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R G B.
Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is not. Our
eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total colors
would be seven.

That is:

Violet Green Orange

Indigo Blue Yellow Red

SEE: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html#c1

Rob Howard

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of James Steiner
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:45 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

So, why was indigo worthy of inclusion, while cyan was not?

~~James

http://www.turtlezero.com

(JA-86)

On 12/2/06, Dede Densmore <dede at backspaces.net> wrote:

> Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we

> learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to

> forget it and that definitely included indigo.

>

> Dede

>

> On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:

>

> > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent

> > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"

> > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions

> > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,

> > anytime.

> >

> > So for what it's worth....

> >

> > -tj

> >

> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>

> > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM

> > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

> > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org

> >

> > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.

> > Thursday, November 30, 2006

> >

> > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &

> > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

> >

> >

> > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven

> > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A

> > rainbow has

> > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to

> > count

> > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum,

> > both

> > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka

> > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints

> > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism

> > toward

> > even numbers.

> > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West

> > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a

> > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,

> > "whereas in

> > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words

> > in

> > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he

> > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors

> > the

> > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that

> > favors the

> > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."

> >

> > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why

> > different

> > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other.

> > The

> > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the

> > ancient

> > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the

> > idea

> > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered

> > to be

> > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the

> > concept

> > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite

> > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the

> > other." So

> > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his

> > parents.

> > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good

> > and

> > superior" in relation to yin.

> >

> > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably

> > faded in

> > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by

> > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and

> > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought

> > and

> > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even

> > numbers

> > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between

> > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in

> > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the

> > West,

> > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."

> >

> > The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is

> > temporarily

> > available free through Sage Publications.

> >

> > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > MEA mailing list

> > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org

> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea

--

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

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Russell Standish

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Your diagram would imply Violet lies inbetween Indigo and Blue,
whereas traditionally it is the other way around (Roy G Biv).

To be quite frank, I cannot distinguish a seperate colour between blue
and violet - does that mean my cones are defective?

Cheers

On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 10:54:43AM -0700, Robert Howard wrote:

> My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R G B.
> Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is not. Our
> eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
> intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
> curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total colors
> would be seven.
>
>
>
> That is:
>
>
>
> Violet Green Orange
>
>
>
> Indigo Blue Yellow Red
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SEE: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html#c1
>
>
>
> Rob Howard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf
> Of James Steiner
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:45 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
>
>
> So, why was indigo worthy of inclusion, while cyan was not?
>
>
>
> ~~James
>
> http://www.turtlezero.com
>
> (JA-86)
>
>
>
> On 12/2/06, Dede Densmore <dede at backspaces.net> wrote:
>
> > Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we
>
> > learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to
>
> > forget it and that definitely included indigo.
>
> >
>
> > Dede
>
> >
>
> > On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent
>
> > > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"
>
> > > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
>
> > > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,
>
> > > anytime.
>
> > >
>
> > > So for what it's worth....
>
> > >
>
> > > -tj
>
> > >
>
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> > > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
>
> > > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
>
> > > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > >
>
> > > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
>
> > > Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> > >
>
> > > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
>
> > > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
>
> > > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
>
> > > rainbow has
>
> > > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
>
> > > count
>
> > > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum,
>
> > > both
>
> > > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
>
> > > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
>
> > > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
>
> > > toward
>
> > > even numbers.
>
> > > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
>
> > > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
>
> > > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
>
> > > "whereas in
>
> > > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words
>
> > > in
>
> > > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
>
> > > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors
>
> > > the
>
> > > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
>
> > > favors the
>
> > > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> > >
>
> > > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
>
> > > different
>
> > > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other.
>
> > > The
>
> > > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
>
> > > ancient
>
> > > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the
>
> > > idea
>
> > > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered
>
> > > to be
>
> > > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
>
> > > concept
>
> > > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
>
> > > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
>
> > > other." So
>
> > > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
>
> > > parents.
>
> > > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good
>
> > > and
>
> > > superior" in relation to yin.
>
> > >
>
> > > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
>
> > > faded in
>
> > > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
>
> > > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
>
> > > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought
>
> > > and
>
> > > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
>
> > > numbers
>
> > > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
>
> > > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
>
> > > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the
>
> > > West,
>
> > > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> > >
>
> > > The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
>
> > > temporarily
>
> > > available free through Sage Publications.
>
> > >
>
> > > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > MEA mailing list
>
> > > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
> --
>
>
>
> ============================================================
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

George Duncan

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Here's an interesting site on rainbows: http://www.eo.ucar.edu/rainbows/

Particularly see the Java applet.

On 12/2/06, Russell Standish <r.standish at unsw.edu.au> wrote:

>
> Your diagram would imply Violet lies inbetween Indigo and Blue,
> whereas traditionally it is the other way around (Roy G Biv).
>
> To be quite frank, I cannot distinguish a seperate colour between blue
> and violet - does that mean my cones are defective?
>
> Cheers
>
> On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 10:54:43AM -0700, Robert Howard wrote:
> > My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R G
> B.
> > Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is not.
> Our
> > eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
> > intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
> > curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total colors
> > would be seven.
> >
> >
> >
> > That is:
> >
> >
> >
> > Violet Green Orange
> >
> >
> >
> > Indigo Blue Yellow Red
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SEE: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html#c1
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Howard
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of James Steiner
> > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:45 PM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> >
> >
> >
> > So, why was indigo worthy of inclusion, while cyan was not?
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~James
> >
> > http://www.turtlezero.com
> >
> > (JA-86)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/2/06, Dede Densmore <dede at backspaces.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we
> >
> > > learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to
> >
> > > forget it and that definitely included indigo.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dede
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original
> intent
> >
> > > > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of
> numbers"
> >
> > > > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
> >
> > > > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable
> anywhere,
> >
> > > > anytime.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > So for what it's worth....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > -tj
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >
> > > > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
> >
> > > > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
> >
> > > > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> >
> > > > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
> >
> > > > Thursday, November 30, 2006
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology
> &
> >
> > > > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
> >
> > > > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
> >
> > > > rainbow has
> >
> > > > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
> >
> > > > count
> >
> > > > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous
> spectrum,
> >
> > > > both
> >
> > > > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
> >
> > > > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
> >
> > > > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
> >
> > > > toward
> >
> > > > even numbers.
> >
> > > > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an
> East-West
> >
> > > > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
> >
> > > > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
> >
> > > > "whereas in
> >
> > > > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related
> words
> >
> > > > in
> >
> > > > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
> >
> > > > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that
> favors
> >
> > > > the
> >
> > > > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
> >
> > > > favors the
> >
> > > > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
> >
> > > > different
> >
> > > > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the
> other.
> >
> > > > The
> >
> > > > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
> >
> > > > ancient
> >
> > > > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the
> >
> > > > idea
> >
> > > > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered
> >
> > > > to be
> >
> > > > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
> >
> > > > concept
> >
> > > > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
> >
> > > > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
> >
> > > > other." So
> >
> > > > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
> >
> > > > parents.
> >
> > > > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as
> "good
> >
> > > > and
> >
> > > > superior" in relation to yin.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
> >
> > > > faded in
> >
> > > > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
> >
> > > > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality,
> and
> >
> > > > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang
> thought
> >
> > > > and
> >
> > > > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
> >
> > > > numbers
> >
> > > > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete,
> in-between
> >
> > > > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus,
> "in
> >
> > > > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in
> the
> >
> > > > West,
> >
> > > > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
> >
> > > > temporarily
> >
> > > > available free through Sage Publications.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > > > MEA mailing list
> >
> > > > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> >
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
>
>
>
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Mathematics
> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
> Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

--
George T. Duncan
Professor of Statistics
Heinz School of Public Policy and Management
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
(412) 268-2172
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Frank Wimberly

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Everyone?s focusing on the rainbow issue. The original observation had
to do with whether even numbers are more important in Western cultures
while odd numbers were more important in Eastern. Could be but I doubt
it. What about the Trinity (3), the Pentateuch (5), the seven deadly
sins (7). Seven seems to be quite important in many contexts from
gambling to dwarves. I'm not sure how this question could be
effectively addressed empirically. You would have to have some measure
of importance.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz??????????????(505) 995-8715 or (505) 670-9918 (cell)
Santa Fe, NM 87505???????????wimberly3 at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:11 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Here's an interesting site on rainbows: http://www.eo.ucar.edu/rainbows/
?
Particularly see the Java applet.

?
On 12/2/06, Russell Standish <r.standish at unsw.edu.au> wrote:
Your diagram would imply Violet lies inbetween Indigo and Blue,
whereas traditionally it is the other way around (Roy G Biv).

To be quite frank, I cannot distinguish a seperate colour between blue
and violet - does that mean my cones are defective?

Cheers

On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 10:54:43AM -0700, Robert Howard wrote:
> My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R
G B.
> Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is
not. Our
> eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
> intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
> curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total
colors

> would be seven.
>
>
>
> That is:
>
>
>
>????????Violet??????Green????????Orange
>
>
>
> Indigo????????Blue?????? Yellow???????? Red
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SEE: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html#c1
>
>
>
> Rob Howard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On

Behalf

>
> > forget it and that definitely included indigo.
>
> >
>
> > Dede
>
> >
>
> > On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original

intent
>
> > > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of
numbers"
>
> > > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting
questions
>
> > > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable
anywhere,

>
> > > anytime.
>
> > >
>
> > > So for what it's worth....
>
> > >
>
> > > -tj
>
> > >
>
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> > > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
>
> > > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
>
> > > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > >
>
> > > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
>
> > > Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> > >
>
> > > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science,

Technology &

>
> > > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
>
> > > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
>
> > > rainbow has
>
> > > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
>
> > > count
>
> > > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous

spectrum,
>
> > > both
>
> > > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at
Osaka
>
> > > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct
viewpoints
>
> > > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western
favoritism
>
> > > toward
>
> > > even numbers.
>
> > > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an
East-West
>
> > > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to
a
>
> > > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
>
> > > "whereas in
>
> > > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related
words
>
> > > in
>
> > > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears,"
he
>
> > > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that
favors

>
> > > the
>
> > > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
>
> > > favors the
>
> > > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> > >
>
> > > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
>
> > > different
>
> > > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the

other.
>
> > > The
>
> > > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
>
> > > ancient
>
> > > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on
the
>
> > > idea
>
> > > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally
considered
>
> > > to be
>
> > > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that
the
>
> > > concept
>
> > > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of
"infinite

>
> > > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
>
> > > other." So
>
> > > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
>
> > > parents.
>
> > > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as

"good

>
> > > and
>
> > > superior" in relation to yin.
>
> > >
>
> > > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
>
> > > faded in
>
> > > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented

by
>
> > > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality,
and
>
> > > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang
thought
>
> > > and
>
> > > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
>
> > > numbers
>
> > > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete,
in-between
>
> > > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus,
"in
>
> > > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in
the

>
> > > West,
>
> > > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> > >
>
> > >??The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
>
> > > temporarily
>
> > > available free through Sage Publications.
>
> > >
>
> > > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > MEA mailing list
>
> > > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
> --
>
>
>
> ============================================================
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
A/Prof Russell Standish??????????????????Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Mathematics
UNSW SYDNEY 2052???????????????????????? hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au
Australia????????????????????????????????http://www.hpcoders.com.au
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--
George T. Duncan
Professor of Statistics
Heinz School of Public Policy and Management
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
(412) 268-2172

Robert Howard-2-3

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

In reply to this post by Russell Standish

Agreed. Good catch!

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Russell Standish
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:20 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Your diagram would imply Violet lies inbetween Indigo and Blue,
whereas traditionally it is the other way around (Roy G Biv).

To be quite frank, I cannot distinguish a seperate colour between blue
and violet - does that mean my cones are defective?

Cheers

On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 10:54:43AM -0700, Robert Howard wrote:
> My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R G
B.
> Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is not.
Our

> eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
> intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
> curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total colors
> would be seven.
>
>
>
> That is:
>
>
>
> Violet Green Orange
>
>
>
> Indigo Blue Yellow Red
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SEE: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html#c1
>
>
>
> Rob Howard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On

Behalf

> Of James Steiner
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:45 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
>
>
> So, why was indigo worthy of inclusion, while cyan was not?
>
>
>
> ~~James
>
> http://www.turtlezero.com
>
> (JA-86)
>
>
>
> On 12/2/06, Dede Densmore <dede at backspaces.net> wrote:
>
> > Re Pamela's reply: Me, too! Re Robert's: When I was growing up, we
>
> > learned " Roy G. Biv", a name silly enough that you weren't likely to
>
> > forget it and that definitely included indigo.
>
> >
>
> > Dede
>
> >
>
> > On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:17 PM, J T Johnson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > My apologies, and I seem to be pushing the evelope of original intent
>
> > > for the FRIAM list, but I find this sort of "anthropology of numbers"
>
> > > topic an interesting problem that converges on interesting questions
>
> > > in how we design, say, databases or UIs that are applicable anywhere,
>
> > > anytime.
>
> > >
>
> > > So for what it's worth....
>
> > >
>
> > > -tj
>
> > >
>
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> > > From: STRATE at fordham.edu < STRATE at fordham.edu>
>
> > > Date: Nov 30, 2006 5:55 PM
>
> > > Subject: [MEA] Fwd:The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > > To: MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > >
>
> > > >From the Chronicle of Higher Ed's Magazine and Journal Reader.
>
> > > Thursday, November 30, 2006
>
> > >
>
> > > A glance at the current issue of the Bulletin of Science, Technology &
>
> > > Society: The yin and yang of numbers across cultures
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In Japanese culture, a rainbow is considered to consist of seven
>
> > > colors: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and purple. A
>
> > > rainbow has
>
> > > one less color in the West, as Americans and Europeans tend not to
>
> > > count
>
> > > indigo. However, because a rainbow is actually a continuous spectrum,
>
> > > both
>
> > > perceptions are wrong, notes Yutaka Nishiyama, a professor at Osaka
>
> > > University of Economics, in Japan. He says those distinct viewpoints
>
> > > reflect a Japanese preference for odd numbers and Western favoritism
>
> > > toward
>
> > > even numbers.
>
> > > Mr. Nishiyama provides numerous other examples to suggest an East-West
>
> > > difference in the preference for odd or even numbers. According to a
>
> > > Japanese proverb, for example, three heads are better than two,
>
> > > "whereas in
>
> > > English, two are better than one." In a study of number-related words
>
> > > in
>
> > > English and Japanese, he found additional evidence. "It appears," he
>
> > > writes, "that the Japanese language has a cultural setting that favors
>
> > > the
>
> > > odd numbers 3 and 5, whereas English has a cultural setting that
>
> > > favors the
>
> > > even numbers 2, 4, and 6."
>
> > >
>
> > > The author looks at historical clues in attempting to explain why
>
> > > different
>
> > > cultures may have a preference for one form of numbers over the other.
>
> > > The
>
> > > ancient Greeks, he says, regarded odd numbers as good. So did the
>
> > > ancient
>
> > > Chinese. The latter utilized yin-yang thought, which is based on the
>
> > > idea
>
> > > of alternating opposites. For instance, yang is generally considered
>
> > > to be
>
> > > masculine, and yin to be feminine. He emphasizes, however, that the
>
> > > concept
>
> > > is meant to be interpreted as a system of opposites and of "infinite
>
> > > change," not as "a case of one being superior or inferior to the
>
> > > other." So
>
> > > a man is yang in relation to a woman, but yin in relation to his
>
> > > parents.
>
> > > Only in modern times, he says, has yang come to be understood as "good
>
> > > and
>
> > > superior" in relation to yin.
>
> > >
>
> > > He concludes that the ancient preference for odd numbers probably
>
> > > faded in
>
> > > the West with the arrival of modern mathematics, "as represented by
>
> > > Newton." As he explains it, modern mathematics values rationality, and
>
> > > "seems to have abandoned the ideas of ancient Chinese yin-yang thought
>
> > > and
>
> > > ancient Greek philosophy, in which odd numbers were male and even
>
> > > numbers
>
> > > female. When counting numbers, odd numbers were incomplete, in-between
>
> > > numbers, whereas even numbers were certainly more rational." Thus, "in
>
> > > contrast to the East, where odd numbers are positive and good, in the
>
> > > West,
>
> > > odd numbers are incomplete and superfluous."
>
> > >
>
> > > The article, "A Study of Odd- and Even-Number Cultures," is
>
> > > temporarily
>
> > > available free through Sage Publications.
>
> > >
>
> > > http://bst.sagepub.com/cgi /content/abstract/26/6/479
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > MEA mailing list
>
> > > MEA at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea
>
> --
>
>
>
> ============================================================
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

Robert Howard-2-3

The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

In reply to this post by Frank Wimberly

For even numbered religious equivalents:
The duality of Good vs. Evil (2)
The four horsemen of the apocalypse (4)
The Earth was created in six days.
The eight days of Hanukkah.

I guess you see what you look for.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:21 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Everyone?s focusing on the rainbow issue. The original observation had
to do with whether even numbers are more important in Western cultures
while odd numbers were more important in Eastern. Could be but I doubt
it. What about the Trinity (3), the Pentateuch (5), the seven deadly
sins (7). Seven seems to be quite important in many contexts from
gambling to dwarves. I'm not sure how this question could be
effectively addressed empirically. You would have to have some measure
of importance.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz??????????????(505) 995-8715 or (505) 670-9918 (cell)
Santa Fe, NM 87505???????????wimberly3 at earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 3:11 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The yin and yang of numbers across cultures

Here's an interesting site on rainbows: http://www.eo.ucar.edu/rainbows/
?
Particularly see the Java applet.

?
On 12/2/06, Russell Standish <r.standish at unsw.edu.au> wrote:
Your diagram would imply Violet lies inbetween Indigo and Blue,
whereas traditionally it is the other way around (Roy G Biv).

To be quite frank, I cannot distinguish a seperate colour between blue
and violet - does that mean my cones are defective?

Cheers

On Sun, Dec 03, 2006 at 10:54:43AM -0700, Robert Howard wrote:
> My understanding is that there are really just three primary colors: R
G B.
> Even though the spectrum is mathematically continuous, evolution is
not. Our
> eyes have three types of cones (for color) and one type of rod (for
> intensity). It seems that because the three super-imposed distribution
> curves yield three maximum crests and four minimum troughs: total
colors

Behalf

Technology &

"good