Somethint to talk about tomorrow

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Nick Thompson
All,

Every once in a while, I run into a passage so sharp and well written that it rattles my whole world. The passage is from

Bendor and Swistak (1998) 'Evolutionary Equilibria: CharacterizationTheorems and their Implications', Theory and Decision, 45, 99-159.  ( from pages 113-116]



For anybody doing game theory modelling it's a must read.  It also demonstrates (once again) the dangers of intentional-mentalistic  theoretical terms (in this case, "strategy") in modelling exercises.  The profound point for me is that selection for a behavior performed under a particular set of circumstances is NOT selection for a strategy, unless another strategy exists in the population that does not perform that behavior under those circumstances.  (Following the model of words like "isozyme", let us say that two strategies that produce the same behaviors under a given set of circumstances as "isoethic" (from ethology).  and say that the same two strategies may be "alloethic" under a different set of circumstances. )  Selection cannot occur between two strategies UNLESS they are alloethic.   Whether two strategies are allo- or iso-ethic is not solely a propery of them or even  of the relation between them but a property of the relation between them in relation to what other strategies are within the population!  The thing about this way of thinking that makes my palms sweat is suddently makes Waddington's concept of Genetic Assimilation totally transparent.  Before the heat shock procedure, there was isoethic variation in wing-formation genes; in the context of heat shock, this variation became alloethic, and could be selected.  

ANYWAY.  Dont read thompson, read the damn passage.

NIck
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070607/0af5ccb0/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Doc5.doc
Type: application/msword
Size: 24576 bytes
Desc: Doc5.doc
Url : http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070607/0af5ccb0/attachment.doc 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Robert Holmes
On 6/7/07, Nicholas Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>  <snip>The thing about this way of thinking that makes my palms sweat is
> suddently makes Waddington's concept of Genetic Assimilation totally
> transparent.  Before the heat shock procedure, there was isoethic variation
> in wing-formation genes; in the context of heat shock, this variation became
> alloethic, and could be selected.
>
> ANYWAY.  Dont read thompson, read the damn passage.
>
> NIck
>

Or - as Rutherford & Lindquist (1998) suggest - the Hsp90 acts as a buffer
on the flies accumulated mutations. So how would we go about distinguishing
which of these is the the best description?

Robert
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070609/d789df79/attachment.html 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Owen Densmore
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
Is there any way we could pass around pdf's or just text papers we  
share with each other?  I no longer have MS Office available, nor  
does anyone in my household, and I would like to avoid getting it.  I  
think I got the right stuff via textedit, I attach the pdf, but I'm  
not sure I got it all.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Doc5.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 49276 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070609/3b22d42d/attachment.pdf 
-------------- next part --------------


     -- Owen


On Jun 7, 2007, at 11:35 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> All,
>
> Every once in a while, I run into a passage so sharp and well  
> written that it rattles my whole world. The passage is from
>
> Bendor and Swistak (1998) 'Evolutionary Equilibria:  
> CharacterizationTheorems and their Implications', Theory and  
> Decision, 45, 99-159.  ( from pages 113-116]
>
>
>
> For anybody doing game theory modelling it's a must read.  It also  
> demonstrates (once again) the dangers of intentional-mentalistic  
> theoretical terms (in this case, "strategy") in modelling  
> exercises.  The profound point for me is that selection for a  
> behavior performed under a particular set of circumstances is NOT  
> selection for a strategy, unless another strategy exists in the  
> population that does not perform that behavior under those  
> circumstances.  (Following the model of words like "isozyme", let  
> us say that two strategies that produce the same behaviors under a  
> given set of circumstances as "isoethic" (from ethology).  and say  
> that the same two strategies may be "alloethic" under a different  
> set of circumstances. )  Selection cannot occur between two  
> strategies UNLESS they are alloethic.   Whether two strategies are  
> allo- or iso-ethic is not solely a propery of them or even  of the  
> relation between them but a property of the relation between them  
> in relation to what other strategies are within the population!  
> The thing about this way of thinking that makes my palms sweat is  
> suddently makes Waddington's concept of Genetic Assimilation  
> totally transparent.  Before the heat shock procedure, there was  
> isoethic variation in wing-formation genes; in the context of heat  
> shock, this variation became alloethic, and could be selected.
>
> ANYWAY.  Dont read thompson, read the damn passage.
>
> NIck
> <Doc5.doc>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Douglas Roberts-2
*Everybody* has MS Doc format (+/-) available to them, for free:

http://docs.google.com/

I use it all the time.

--Doug

--
Doug Roberts, RTI International
droberts at rti.org
doug at parrot-farm.net
505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell

On 6/9/07, Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net> wrote:

>
> Is there any way we could pass around pdf's or just text papers we
> share with each other?  I no longer have MS Office available, nor
> does anyone in my household, and I would like to avoid getting it.  I
> think I got the right stuff via textedit, I attach the pdf, but I'm
> not sure I got it all.
>
>
>
>
>      -- Owen
>
>
> On Jun 7, 2007, at 11:35 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > Every once in a while, I run into a passage so sharp and well
> > written that it rattles my whole world. The passage is from
> >
> > Bendor and Swistak (1998) 'Evolutionary Equilibria:
> > CharacterizationTheorems and their Implications', Theory and
> > Decision, 45, 99-159.  ( from pages 113-116]
> >
> >
> >
> > For anybody doing game theory modelling it's a must read.  It also
> > demonstrates (once again) the dangers of intentional-mentalistic
> > theoretical terms (in this case, "strategy") in modelling
> > exercises.  The profound point for me is that selection for a
> > behavior performed under a particular set of circumstances is NOT
> > selection for a strategy, unless another strategy exists in the
> > population that does not perform that behavior under those
> > circumstances.  (Following the model of words like "isozyme", let
> > us say that two strategies that produce the same behaviors under a
> > given set of circumstances as "isoethic" (from ethology).  and say
> > that the same two strategies may be "alloethic" under a different
> > set of circumstances. )  Selection cannot occur between two
> > strategies UNLESS they are alloethic.   Whether two strategies are
> > allo- or iso-ethic is not solely a propery of them or even  of the
> > relation between them but a property of the relation between them
> > in relation to what other strategies are within the population!
> > The thing about this way of thinking that makes my palms sweat is
> > suddently makes Waddington's concept of Genetic Assimilation
> > totally transparent.  Before the heat shock procedure, there was
> > isoethic variation in wing-formation genes; in the context of heat
> > shock, this variation became alloethic, and could be selected.
> >
> > ANYWAY.  Dont read thompson, read the damn passage.
> >
> > NIck
> > <Doc5.doc>
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070609/9b15fe55/attachment.html 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Alfredo Covaleda
Or download Abiwoird at  http://www.abiword.org or even better
openoffice at http://www.openoffice.org . Both for free


Douglas Roberts wrote:

> *Everybody* has MS Doc format (+/-) available to them, for free:
>
> http://docs.google.com/
>
> I use it all the time.
>
> --Doug
>
> --
> Doug Roberts, RTI International
> droberts at rti.org <mailto:droberts at rti.org>
> doug at parrot-farm.net <mailto:doug at parrot-farm.net>
> 505-455-7333 - Office
> 505-670-8195 - Cell
>
> On 6/9/07, Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net
> <mailto:owen at backspaces.net>> wrote:
>
>     Is there any way we could pass around pdf's or just text papers we
>     share with each other?  I no longer have MS Office available, nor
>     does anyone in my household, and I would like to avoid getting it.  I
>     think I got the right stuff via textedit, I attach the pdf, but I'm
>     not sure I got it all.
>
>
>
>
>          -- Owen
>
>
>     On Jun 7, 2007, at 11:35 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
>     > All,
>     >
>     > Every once in a while, I run into a passage so sharp and well
>     > written that it rattles my whole world. The passage is from
>     >
>     > Bendor and Swistak (1998) 'Evolutionary Equilibria:
>     > CharacterizationTheorems and their Implications', Theory and
>     > Decision, 45, 99-159.  ( from pages 113-116]
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > For anybody doing game theory modelling it's a must read.  It also
>     > demonstrates (once again) the dangers of intentional-mentalistic
>     > theoretical terms (in this case, "strategy") in modelling
>     > exercises.  The profound point for me is that selection for a
>     > behavior performed under a particular set of circumstances is NOT
>     > selection for a strategy, unless another strategy exists in the
>     > population that does not perform that behavior under those
>     > circumstances.  (Following the model of words like "isozyme", let
>     > us say that two strategies that produce the same behaviors under a
>     > given set of circumstances as "isoethic" (from ethology).  and say
>     > that the same two strategies may be "alloethic" under a different
>     > set of circumstances. )  Selection cannot occur between two
>     > strategies UNLESS they are alloethic.   Whether two strategies are
>     > allo- or iso-ethic is not solely a propery of them or even  of the
>     > relation between them but a property of the relation between them
>     > in relation to what other strategies are within the population!
>     > The thing about this way of thinking that makes my palms sweat is
>     > suddently makes Waddington's concept of Genetic Assimilation
>     > totally transparent.  Before the heat shock procedure, there was
>     > isoethic variation in wing-formation genes; in the context of heat
>     > shock, this variation became alloethic, and could be selected.
>     >
>     > ANYWAY.  Dont read thompson, read the damn passage.
>     >
>     > NIck
>     > <Doc5.doc>
>     > ============================================================
>     > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>     > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>     > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>     ============================================================
>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>     lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>============================================================
>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

--
********************************
Alfredo Covaleda V?lez
Ingeniero Agr?nomo
Tel?fono: 3112137829
Bogot? D.C. -  Colombia
********************************
venda sus libros en
http://www.loslibrosusados.com
********************************

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070609/d7c6f0c0/attachment.html 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Somethint to talk about tomorrow

Marcus G. Daniels
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Douglas Roberts wrote:
> *Everybody* has MS Doc format (+/-) available to them, for free:
>
> http://docs.google.com/
>
+/- how much though?  If a MS Doc file won't load or print properly, or
you always have to worry if it will mangle things, that's no good!

Here are a couple converter projects for the new `portable' formats:  
ODF and OOXML.

This ODF import/export module adds a menu item in MS 2007 for loading
and saving ODF, e.g. you have to be saved first.   A fancy XSLT program,
sounds like.

http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net/ 

This module below requires SuSE, and their Open Office variant or OO on
Windows.   I can't find source for the OO plugin.  Haven't tested this,
as I'm mostly a Fedora user.

http://download.novell.com/SummaryFree.jsp?buildid=ESrjfdE4U58~