Score one for Wokeism!
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https://www.ajc.com/sports/for-renee-montgomery-atlanta-dream-ownership-started-with-a-tweet/NSMXRKNRIJAIFFAHADYK2E3XGQ/ https://www.ajc.com/sports/sale-of-atlanta-dream-could-be-announced-today/7OAXQCPCHFHTHOW6VD4BVVX3BM/ The Wokeists cancelled yet another person who seriously needs cancelling. Loeffler will join the Weisteins, Haidts, and Lindells of the world soon, I'm sure. One day, I'll be cancelled too. But it'll be OK because I don't over-estimate the value of my voice. >8^D -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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What's the difference between an Antifa and a Wokeist? I think it has something to do with a down-weighting on the importance of democratic representation & fair play?
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 2:04 PM To: FriAM <[hidden email]> Subject: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! https://www.ajc.com/sports/for-renee-montgomery-atlanta-dream-ownership-started-with-a-tweet/NSMXRKNRIJAIFFAHADYK2E3XGQ/ https://www.ajc.com/sports/sale-of-atlanta-dream-could-be-announced-today/7OAXQCPCHFHTHOW6VD4BVVX3BM/ The Wokeists cancelled yet another person who seriously needs cancelling. Loeffler will join the Weisteins, Haidts, and Lindells of the world soon, I'm sure. One day, I'll be cancelled too. But it'll be OK because I don't over-estimate the value of my voice. >8^D -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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I'm working off this guy's accusation that Wokeism is a "pseudo-religion":
https://hwfo.substack.com/p/science-says-sam-harris-is-alt-right I don't... but if you did take his nonsense seriously, then Wokeism is a broader ethical system than Antifa. Antifa seems to me to be more honestly anarchist, playing whack-a-mole with asymmetric power. Perhaps it depends on how one defines "democracy & fair play". Wokeism seems to be more about cultural engineering. I wouldn't expect the Woke to have a problem with the asymmetry between, say, Beyonce's voice and Richard Spencer's pathetic post-punch rants. Antifa, however, may one day turn on to the fascist imagery implicit in every group dance choreography (or the existence of "clap tracks" and autotuners in every modern pop song) and try to hammer down that peak a bit. One can dream. For the most part, because white cis men still have the overwhelming majority of all power in the US, Antifa and Wokeists should align nicely for the indefinite future. Of course, there's also an inter-personal difference. Wokeists, us being soft-handed snowflakes, aren't as likely as Antifa to bring body armor to the protests ... but you never know for sure. On 3/4/21 2:24 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > What's the difference between an Antifa and a Wokeist? I think it has something to do with a down-weighting on the importance of democratic representation & fair play? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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I do get a little tired of all of the back-and-forth media coverage and political posturing about democracy and fair play. Of course it was the full court press to slow down Trump's administration when it started. In this sense the current climate of polarization is more honest. Of course we hate you guys, we always have..
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 2:40 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! I'm working off this guy's accusation that Wokeism is a "pseudo-religion": https://hwfo.substack.com/p/science-says-sam-harris-is-alt-right I don't... but if you did take his nonsense seriously, then Wokeism is a broader ethical system than Antifa. Antifa seems to me to be more honestly anarchist, playing whack-a-mole with asymmetric power. Perhaps it depends on how one defines "democracy & fair play". Wokeism seems to be more about cultural engineering. I wouldn't expect the Woke to have a problem with the asymmetry between, say, Beyonce's voice and Richard Spencer's pathetic post-punch rants. Antifa, however, may one day turn on to the fascist imagery implicit in every group dance choreography (or the existence of "clap tracks" and autotuners in every modern pop song) and try to hammer down that peak a bit. One can dream. For the most part, because white cis men still have the overwhelming majority of all power in the US, Antifa and Wokeists should align nicely for the indefinite future. Of course, there's also an inter-personal difference. Wokeists, us being soft-handed snowflakes, aren't as likely as Antifa to bring body armor to the protests ... but you never know for sure. On 3/4/21 2:24 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > What's the difference between an Antifa and a Wokeist? I think it has something to do with a down-weighting on the importance of democratic representation & fair play? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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At the same time I saw this conversation between Glen and Marcus this arrived in my inbox. It's from The New Yorker's humor pages: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/ways-non-woke-people-from-history-tried-to-be-woke?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Humor_030421&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bea160d24c17c6adf1d90ff&cndid=26657004&hasha=03a68c161f5d16347943cf2195691293&hashb=806a12bf27a999679e133d98a8068fab3b194723&hashc=5a04768fafab49af2104ea98375511d11b19157e125fbac5ef8a7b339af771dd&esrc=auto_captionentrants&utm_term=TNY_Humor --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 4:12 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote: I do get a little tired of all of the back-and-forth media coverage and political posturing about democracy and fair play. Of course it was the full court press to slow down Trump's administration when it started. In this sense the current climate of polarization is more honest. Of course we hate you guys, we always have.. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Yeah. But Trump is merely 1 symptom of the disease. And populism is another symptom of, I think, that same disease. Witness:
Government drug adviser David Nutt sacked https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked So, Nutt, all the way back in '09, was cancelled for telling the truth. But rather than whine on forever about it and glue his identity to a chip on his shoulder, he's plugged along doing actual work. Psychedelic Microdosing - Just a Placebo Effect? https://www.drugscience.org.uk/psychedelic-microdosing-lsd-or-psilocybin-mushrooms-placebo-effect/ Of course, one could argue that Nutt's being canceled (by a far more insidious cancel culture than Wokeism could ever muster) *contributed* to society. When a local peak like Kevin Spacey gets cancelled, it's tempting to succumb to the Great Man Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory) and think in terms of that singular figurehead ... that celebrity ... as if Beyonce was any more talented than your local church choir boy. But it's clearly *false*, a symptom of our diseased minds, infected with the illusion of Individualism. What's actually happening when Brett Weinsteins get kicked out of their universities is a flattening of a suboptimal peak in a rich landscape. It gives the Louis C.K.s new opportunities to be more creative, in more interesting ways. Besides Nutt, another interesting example is Dave Chappelle, who was brilliant enough to CANCEL HIMSELF in order to facilitate that creative splattering. To cast this stuff in terms of "culture war", democracy, or fair play is to limit the scope and risk treating the symptoms instead of the disease. On 3/4/21 3:12 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I do get a little tired of all of the back-and-forth media coverage and political posturing about democracy and fair play. Of course it was the full court press to slow down Trump's administration when it started. In this sense the current climate of polarization is more honest. Of course we hate you guys, we always have.. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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The flattening is a form of authoritarianism, it seems to me. If those doing the firing are able to enhance their power, that (in their mind) resources will ultimately be focused in a more effective way than if many sub-optimal peaks are allowed. That people need to believe the celebrities and leaders are worthy of their influence, and the only way to make that case is to make the contrast strong, by flattening the sub-optimal peaks (cutting down anything that looks like competition). This problem comes from people just as much as it comes from the celebrities and leaders.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 7:03 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! Yeah. But Trump is merely 1 symptom of the disease. And populism is another symptom of, I think, that same disease. Witness: Government drug adviser David Nutt sacked https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked So, Nutt, all the way back in '09, was cancelled for telling the truth. But rather than whine on forever about it and glue his identity to a chip on his shoulder, he's plugged along doing actual work. Psychedelic Microdosing - Just a Placebo Effect? https://www.drugscience.org.uk/psychedelic-microdosing-lsd-or-psilocybin-mushrooms-placebo-effect/ Of course, one could argue that Nutt's being canceled (by a far more insidious cancel culture than Wokeism could ever muster) *contributed* to society. When a local peak like Kevin Spacey gets cancelled, it's tempting to succumb to the Great Man Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory) and think in terms of that singular figurehead ... that celebrity ... as if Beyonce was any more talented than your local church choir boy. But it's clearly *false*, a symptom of our diseased minds, infected with the illusion of Individualism. What's actually happening when Brett Weinsteins get kicked out of their universities is a flattening of a suboptimal peak in a rich landscape. It gives the Louis C.K.s new opportunities to be more creative, in more interesting ways. Besides Nutt, another interesting example is Dave Chappelle, who was brilliant enough to CANCEL HIMSELF in order to facilitate that creative splattering. To cast this stuff in terms of "culture war", democracy, or fair play is to limit the scope and risk treating the symptoms instead of the disease. On 3/4/21 3:12 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I do get a little tired of all of the back-and-forth media coverage and political posturing about democracy and fair play. Of course it was the full court press to slow down Trump's administration when it started. In this sense the current climate of polarization is more honest. Of course we hate you guys, we always have.. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Hm. I can see that relying on an authority to do the flattening would be authoritarianism. So, e.g. using a Constitution or religious doctrine as the basis for the flattening would fall into that class. But if the objective function is endogenous, then it's not authoritarian.
And this is the main point Campbell makes about Wokeism. He claims its dynamism and decentralization is a) why it'll last for awhile and b) is merely a *pseudo* religion, not an actual one. Again, if you buy his rhetoric (which I don't), then Woke flattening is not authoritarian (or any form of censorship). One could argue that LeBron James and Renee Montgomery, in their canceling of Kelly Loeffler, leans toward oligarchy ... i.e. the rich celebrities are the ones flattening other rich celebrities. But that's still not (deep) authoritarianism. On 3/5/21 9:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The flattening is a form of authoritarianism, it seems to me. If those doing the firing are able to enhance their power, that (in their mind) resources will ultimately be focused in a more effective way than if many sub-optimal peaks are allowed. That people need to believe the celebrities and leaders are worthy of their influence, and the only way to make that case is to make the contrast strong, by flattening the sub-optimal peaks (cutting down anything that looks like competition). This problem comes from people just as much as it comes from the celebrities and leaders. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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High SDO people, then..
https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 9:49 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! Hm. I can see that relying on an authority to do the flattening would be authoritarianism. So, e.g. using a Constitution or religious doctrine as the basis for the flattening would fall into that class. But if the objective function is endogenous, then it's not authoritarian. And this is the main point Campbell makes about Wokeism. He claims its dynamism and decentralization is a) why it'll last for awhile and b) is merely a *pseudo* religion, not an actual one. Again, if you buy his rhetoric (which I don't), then Woke flattening is not authoritarian (or any form of censorship). One could argue that LeBron James and Renee Montgomery, in their canceling of Kelly Loeffler, leans toward oligarchy ... i.e. the rich celebrities are the ones flattening other rich celebrities. But that's still not (deep) authoritarianism. On 3/5/21 9:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The flattening is a form of authoritarianism, it seems to me. If those doing the firing are able to enhance their power, that (in their mind) resources will ultimately be focused in a more effective way than if many sub-optimal peaks are allowed. That people need to believe the celebrities and leaders are worthy of their influence, and the only way to make that case is to make the contrast strong, by flattening the sub-optimal peaks (cutting down anything that looks like competition). This problem comes from people just as much as it comes from the celebrities and leaders. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Hannah Arendt (wink to Merle) argues that the flattening (both externally and
internally) is perhaps the salient feature of totalitarianism. I find myself often looking for the original reference and unfortunately not finding it. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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I can't believe that. The act of flattening is a natural part of the dynamics. What you (and Marcus) are equating is the act of flattening with a system-wide tendency to flatten *everything*. By saying the flattening is good, I'm not saying everything should always be flattened. That's a false equivalence that I doubt Arendt would support.
And this also applies to endogenous objective functions. Facile flattening encourages new peaks ... encourages a bumpy, complex landscape. Totalitarianism and authoritarianism are exogenous functions. On 3/5/21 10:01 AM, jon zingale wrote: > Hannah Arendt (wink to Merle) argues that the flattening (both externally and > internally) is perhaps the salient feature of totalitarianism. I find myself > often looking for the original reference and unfortunately not finding it. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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I'm talking about personality. I think the current polarization is a projection of SDO / non-SDO onto Republican / Democrat. To what extent must injustice exist, or even be encouraged, to create a stable social system?
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:07 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! I can't believe that. The act of flattening is a natural part of the dynamics. What you (and Marcus) are equating is the act of flattening with a system-wide tendency to flatten *everything*. By saying the flattening is good, I'm not saying everything should always be flattened. That's a false equivalence that I doubt Arendt would support. And this also applies to endogenous objective functions. Facile flattening encourages new peaks ... encourages a bumpy, complex landscape. Totalitarianism and authoritarianism are exogenous functions. On 3/5/21 10:01 AM, jon zingale wrote: > Hannah Arendt (wink to Merle) argues that the flattening (both > externally and > internally) is perhaps the salient feature of totalitarianism. I find > myself often looking for the original reference and unfortunately not finding it. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Well, SDO seems like a fragile psychological theory to popularize ... like power-stancing or somesuch. But even if we buy its credible extrapolation into everyday life, my guess is it would be context sensitive. E.g. within some group of, say, neo-fascists, a mexican-hat structure might obtain, where all the nazis accept the authority of the 1 nazi, but work like hell to make nazis 2..N equal in status. Similarly, we might find a scaled organization like a traditional matrix organization where we have hierarchy in 2 dimensions. Etc.
So even if we adopt SDO as credible, diversity is good and homogeneity is bad. And *local* flattening is healthy. On 3/5/21 10:11 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I'm talking about personality. I think the current polarization is a projection of SDO / non-SDO onto Republican / Democrat. To what extent must injustice exist, or even be encouraged, to create a stable social system? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Why is local flattening good?
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:17 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! Well, SDO seems like a fragile psychological theory to popularize ... like power-stancing or somesuch. But even if we buy its credible extrapolation into everyday life, my guess is it would be context sensitive. E.g. within some group of, say, neo-fascists, a mexican-hat structure might obtain, where all the nazis accept the authority of the 1 nazi, but work like hell to make nazis 2..N equal in status. Similarly, we might find a scaled organization like a traditional matrix organization where we have hierarchy in 2 dimensions. Etc. So even if we adopt SDO as credible, diversity is good and homogeneity is bad. And *local* flattening is healthy. On 3/5/21 10:11 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I'm talking about personality. I think the current polarization is a projection of SDO / non-SDO onto Republican / Democrat. To what extent must injustice exist, or even be encouraged, to create a stable social system? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by gepr
I did not mean to suggest a judgement about flattening nor totalitarianism.
Rather, in fact, I see totalitarianism as the inevitable consequence of our times (20th-century onward), a manifestation of our highly connected social world and the ability to treat the social as an industrial object. What I hear in what you are saying is something like niche creation. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Because it frees up resources hoarded by peaks. For example, if everyone's spending all day Liking posts on Facebook, it might be good to kill Facebook at least for a little while, scatter the masses and see what comes of it.
On 3/5/21 10:19 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Why is local flattening good? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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It is confusing because you are taking about individuals as peaks, but it is the landscape that has the peaks. One could flood the space to move the individuals around, or at least to free up the resources they are using by drowning them.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:26 AM To: FriAM <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! Because it frees up resources hoarded by peaks. For example, if everyone's spending all day Liking posts on Facebook, it might be good to kill Facebook at least for a little while, scatter the masses and see what comes of it. On 3/5/21 10:19 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Why is local flattening good? -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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No, I thought I made it quite clear that I'm asserting the disease is our identification of individuals with the peaks (which is why I posted the Great Man article). Canceling Kevin Spacey isn't at all about Kevin Spacey. It's about the space of celebrity actors in movies. Canceling Nutt isn't about Nutt. It's about the consolidation of Big Science.
The problem exhibited by Bret Weinstein's shoulder chip is that Bret thinks his canceling was about *him*. It had nothing to do with him. It has to do with the homogeneity of the landscape. The same argument can be leveled against Jon's point. Totalitarianism is not an inevitable consequence of our high connectivity because as connectivity approaches infinity, the "individual" dissolves and collections of individuals become the functional unit. Continuing to hold individuals as first order objects is the disease. On 3/5/21 10:29 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > It is confusing because you are taking about individuals as peaks, but it is the landscape that has the peaks. One could flood the space to move the individuals around, or at least to free up the resources they are using by drowning them. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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I don't think it has to be the extreme case of self-referential fitness. Q-Anon provides a scaffolding such that the landscape is "software defined". It's not like a rabbit found some food to eat, and the food was growing due to favorable conditions on that hilltop. The hill was there because some dorks on Facebook decided to make a hill there. Anyway, I see what you mean by "flattening" if you really think that individuals and fitness are one and the same. The possibility of "software defined" hills is what I would prohibit, e.g. World War Z.
https://youtu.be/uU0DNCV22dU?t=92 -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:37 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for Wokeism! No, I thought I made it quite clear that I'm asserting the disease is our identification of individuals with the peaks (which is why I posted the Great Man article). Canceling Kevin Spacey isn't at all about Kevin Spacey. It's about the space of celebrity actors in movies. Canceling Nutt isn't about Nutt. It's about the consolidation of Big Science. The problem exhibited by Bret Weinstein's shoulder chip is that Bret thinks his canceling was about *him*. It had nothing to do with him. It has to do with the homogeneity of the landscape. The same argument can be leveled against Jon's point. Totalitarianism is not an inevitable consequence of our high connectivity because as connectivity approaches infinity, the "individual" dissolves and collections of individuals become the functional unit. Continuing to hold individuals as first order objects is the disease. On 3/5/21 10:29 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > It is confusing because you are taking about individuals as peaks, but it is the landscape that has the peaks. One could flood the space to move the individuals around, or at least to free up the resources they are using by drowning them. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
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Yeah, that's an excellent point, which I would reword in terms of "distance" from a ground truth. I like the distinctions evoked by naturfact, artifact, and mentifact. It's quite fun to spend some time down a rabbit hole playing around with purely imaginary nonsense ... like playing an abstract video game (https://store.steampowered.com/app/726810/Void_Cube_Runner/). But ultimately, everything we do is grounded somewhere ... otherwise we literally couldn't do it ... like the old saw about finding a truly alien species but not recognizing them as a life form because they're too alien.
If we disallowed all software defined peaks with a distance from ground > 1, then there would be no culture at all. And if we had minds and mentifacts, trading them would get you thrown in jail. So we'd have to define some distance from ground and set a fuzzy boundary around that. QAnon is clearly way too far from ground. But, say, Lense-Thirring as a solution to Dark Matter is not too far. The jury's still out on quantum computation, though. >8^D On 3/5/21 10:50 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I don't think it has to be the extreme case of self-referential fitness. Q-Anon provides a scaffolding such that the landscape is "software defined". It's not like a rabbit found some food to eat, and the food was growing due to favorable conditions on that hilltop. The hill was there because some dorks on Facebook decided to make a hill there. Anyway, I see what you mean by "flattening" if you really think that individuals and fitness are one and the same. The possibility of "software defined" hills is what I would prohibit, e.g. World War Z. > > https://youtu.be/uU0DNCV22dU?t=92 -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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