Reasons why we elect narcissists
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Reasons why we elect narcissists
 
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Given that the 45th president clearly shows signs of severe NPD, which we discussed already 2 years ago, I thought you would perhaps be interested in this Psychology Today article titled "4 Reasons Why We Elect Narcissists and Sociopaths"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201905/4-reasons-why-we-elect-narcissists-and-sociopaths It discusses the recent book from Bill Eddy https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/606614/why-we-elect-narcissists-and-sociopathsand-how-we-can-stop-by-bill-eddy/ -Jochen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Well takes a certain kind of person that's not exactly all their to want to try wrangling 500 egotistical aholes to even get into the same room much less keep the countery from go careening off the deepend. So yeah I'd imagine not to much of a strech that a ahole jerk, and infamous internet troll resonates with people that think in their mind at least "tells it like it is" in a weird rambling tangetle folky drunken bar style of talking. The "southern boy" from next door stereo type.People have said who evers POTUS reall has to stop talking over peoples head. Carter, in recordings was pretty at that. FDR (also from recordings) was equally good at that. B.Clinton tried, and at least IMO opinion suceeded . I guess people that've been around a while got tired of the the H.Clintons and JFK's speaking over their head. , I guess guess because of how they process things people that look roughly like Marcos (wedtech) or Obama are the bain of all. Not true at all. But a troll plays on their irational bonkerness and 45's verbage and language patterns is what they relate to. It's a lot like Reagans and Nixons.Both were basically pretty close to being Narscistic, or at least trolling well enough for them to think their BS was worth buying into. On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 5:55 AM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
IMO the 45th president is a unique example of NPD. The following "Psychology Today" article says that "severe narcissists were likely emotionally injured at a crucial time in their development". For Donald this might have been the time when his parents sent him as a young kid to a private school. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/insight-is-2020/201807/what-makes-some-narcissists-mean-competitive-and-jealous Propaganda on Fox News and Facebook might be a one major reason for the success at his base. We don't get Fox News here in Europe, but I've heard it is quite different from ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN. We can watch CNN, though https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/11/the-making-of-the-fox-news-white-house -Jochen -------- Original message -------- From: Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> Date: 5/8/19 15:43 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Reasons why we elect narcissists Well takes a certain kind of person that's not exactly all their to want to try wrangling 500 egotistical aholes to even get into the same room much less keep the countery from go careening off the deepend. So yeah I'd imagine not to much of a strech that a ahole jerk, and infamous internet troll resonates with people that think in their mind at least "tells it like it is" in a weird rambling tangetle folky drunken bar style of talking. The "southern boy" from next door stereo type.People have said who evers POTUS reall has to stop talking over peoples head. Carter, in recordings was pretty at that. FDR (also from recordings) was equally good at that. B.Clinton tried, and at least IMO opinion suceeded . I guess people that've been around a while got tired of the the H.Clintons and JFK's speaking over their head. , I guess guess because of how they process things people that look roughly like Marcos (wedtech) or Obama are the bain of all. Not true at all. But a troll plays on their irational bonkerness and 45's verbage and language patterns is what they relate to. It's a lot like Reagans and Nixons.Both were basically pretty close to being Narscistic, or at least trolling well enough for them to think their BS was worth buying into. On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 5:55 AM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
Although I'm sympathetic with characterizing him (and most other attention-seeking people) as a narcissist, it seems inadequate. I really liked this characterization, though:
https://www.salon.com/2017/04/06/psychologist-philip-zimbardo-of-the-stanford-prison-experiment-donald-trump-is-an-unconstrained-unbridled-present-hedonist/ as a "present hedonist". I tried to poke around and see if Zimbardo's "time perspectives" model was well justified, but failed. All I found were pop-sci references. But maybe that's because it has such intuitive appeal. I recently had an offline discussion with Steve Smith about Galen Strawson's episodic vs. diachronic personalities. And I definitely identify as episodic. But I could easily re-identify as a "present something", instead. I doubt I'm that much of a present *hedonist*, though. In any case, it makes more sense to think of the Crybaby-In-Chief as a present hedonist than a narcissist because I know so many people I actually *like* who are narcissists and, though they are deeply insecure, they don't wear their insecurity on their sleeve like Trump does. Also, I think this report makes a good case regardless of any or the particular diagnosis: https://dangerouscase.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Report-on-the-Mueller-Report1.pdf "The Special Counsel’s report provides an uncommon wealth of information regarding the President’s mental capacity, begging for a mental health interpretation. Pursuant to our ongoing, primary professional responsibility to society to protect public health and wellbeing, and to warn against potential dangers to the public’s safety and security, we have embarked upon this report. Mental capacity refers to the mental soundness that is necessary to fulfill a task and is a fundamental and necessary component for fitness for duty.It is a functional, not a diagnostic, examination, focused less on the President’s personal mental health than on his capacity to fulfill the duties of his office as observed by co-workers and close associates. The information in the Special Counsel’s report, deriving from multiple sources under sworn testimony, yields an assessment of high confidence." On 5/8/19 9:51 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote: > IMO the 45th president is a unique example of NPD. The following "Psychology Today" article says that "severe narcissists were likely emotionally injured at a crucial time in their development". For Donald this might have been the time when his parents sent him as a young kid to a private school. > https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/insight-is-2020/201807/what-makes-some-narcissists-mean-competitive-and-jealous > > Propaganda on Fox News and Facebook might be a one major reason for the success at his base. We don't get Fox News here in Europe, but I've heard it is quite different from ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN. We can watch CNN, though > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/11/the-making-of-the-fox-news-white-house -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen writes:
< I recently had an offline discussion with Steve Smith about Galen Strawson's episodic vs. diachronic personalities. And I definitely identify as episodic. > The snowflake analogy in another thread seems apt. While I recognize I'm some form of ice one h, my life history leads me to be a special snowflake. I want to be able to flee that history, as it is just an accident. How can anyone want to be just one snowflake? The diachronic narrative is just the wheels of fate rolling forward. A documentation of nothing in particular. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Well, my memory is *terrible*. That helps. I realized the other day, re: one of my narcissist friends (eg she *consistently* gets bored with our conversations and starts poking her phone even while her S.O. is talking directly about a topic she introduced), I don't even remember where she was born and raised. Hell, I don't even remember how old I am most of the time. It's gotten better since the cancer diagnosis because now I have a Big Event to count from and the damned CT scan people ask me every 6 months to write down when my surgeries were.
Even *if* we admit that the accumulation of biological artifacts (like shorter telomeres) "tells the story of our lives", there are some of us who don't understand, reflect on, or realize that story and some who do. My headaches have helped me be more episodic, I think. Maybe you need a good concussion or something to help you doff that narrative. 8^) On 5/8/19 10:40 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The snowflake analogy in another thread seems apt. While I recognize I'm some form of ice one h, my life history leads me to be a special snowflake. I want to be able to flee that history, as it is just an accident. How can anyone want to be just one snowflake? The diachronic narrative is just the wheels of fate rolling forward. A documentation of nothing in particular. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: Reasons why we elect narcissists
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Interesting. What is the difference between episodic and diachronic personalities? -Jochen -------- Original message -------- From: Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> Date: 5/8/19 19:40 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Reasons why we elect narcissists < I recently had an offline discussion with Steve Smith about Galen Strawson's episodic vs. diachronic personalities. And I definitely identify as episodic. > The snowflake analogy in another thread seems apt. While I recognize I'm some form of ice one h, my life history leads me to be a special snowflake. I want to be able to flee that history, as it is just an accident. How can anyone want to be just one snowflake? The diachronic narrative is just the wheels of fate rolling forward. A documentation of nothing in particular. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
From the paper: Against Narrativity - Galen Strawson
"The basic form of Diachronic self-experience is that [D] one naturally figures oneself, considered as a self, as some- thing that was there in the (further) past and will be there in the (further) future ... If one is Episodic, by contrast, [E] one does not figure oneself, considered as a self, as some- thing that was there in the (further) past and will be there in the (further) future." On 5/8/19 10:53 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote: > Interesting. What is the difference between episodic and diachronic personalities? -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: Reasons why we elect narcissists
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In reply to this post by gepr
Glen writes:
"Well, my memory is *terrible*. That helps." A poor memory could cause one to fall back on the old habits without realizing it. (Not "*Why* did I do that again?!") Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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That's a great point. I suppose we do have to separate a psychological narrativity from a physiological narrativity.
On 5/8/19 10:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > A poor memory could cause one to fall back on the old habits without realizing it. (Not "*Why* did I do that again?!") -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Worth repeating here: ----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Wed, May 8, 2019, 12:05 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote: That's a great point. I suppose we do have to separate a psychological narrativity from a physiological narrativity. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Glen writes:
"Even *if* we admit that the accumulation of biological artifacts (like shorter telomeres) "tells the story of our lives", there are some of us who don't understand, reflect on, or realize that story and some who do. My headaches have helped me be more episodic, I think. Maybe you need a good concussion or something to help you doff that narrative." https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/how-to-predict-the-future/588040/ I like the observation how such experts are able to explain away any violation of their predictions with `minor' changes to their model. The hedgehogs just have too much invested in their narrative to make accurate predictions. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Ha! I spend all my time arguing for the foxes and against the hedgehogs. And you've installed yet another trojan horse into my brain by linking to this article (and the oh so attractive book "Range").
"They took from each argument and integrated apparently contradictory worldviews. ... Foxes, meanwhile, 'draw from an eclectic array of traditions, and accept ambiguity and contradiction,' Tetlock wrote. ... The best forecasters, by contrast, view their own ideas as hypotheses in need of testing. If they make a bet and lose, they embrace the logic of a loss just as they would the reinforcement of a win." I can't help but feel you're waiting to pop out of the horse and hit me with something that falsifies my faith in the foxes. On 5/8/19 11:26 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Glen writes: > > "Even *if* we admit that the accumulation of biological artifacts (like shorter telomeres) "tells the story of our lives", there are some of us who don't understand, reflect on, or realize that story and some who do. My headaches have helped me be more episodic, I think. Maybe you need a good concussion or something to help you doff that narrative." > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/how-to-predict-the-future/588040/ > > I like the observation how such experts are able to explain away any violation of their predictions with `minor' changes to their model. The hedgehogs just have too much invested in their narrative to make accurate predictions. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen writes:
"I can't help but feel you're waiting to pop out of the horse and hit me with something that falsifies my faith in the foxes." Their examples were more about (big) systems-level phenomena, anyway. So it is true by construction that breadth is needed. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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I knew it! 8^) I would, naturally, extrapolate (or is it interpolate?) from big systems-level scales down to smaller (but still big, my Confirmation homunculus argues) scales like that of individual organisms. So, here I am thinking a person can be foxy about their own narrativity and you pop out of the horse and hit me with the fact that in the article, the reflective agents are small and many, providing a parallax onto the systemic attributes being estimated. But in an individual organism, the reflective agent is on the same scale as the attributes being estimated.
Thanks for doing that now instead of waiting a few months so that I'd have forgotten about accepting that lovely wooden horse. On 5/8/19 11:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Their examples were more about (big) systems-level phenomena, anyway. So it is true by construction that breadth is needed. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
> "I can't help but feel you're waiting to pop out of the horse and hit me
> with something that falsifies my faith in the foxes." A fox one's faith in which can be falsified is a faux-fox. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
I don't know about your Confirmation homunculus, but you mentioned migraines. Another diagnosis? Could the homunculus be a real *thing*?
https://www.mdedge.com/ccjm/article/132192/imaging/worsening-migraine-due-neurocysticercosis On 5/8/19, 1:15 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote: I knew it! 8^) I would, naturally, extrapolate (or is it interpolate?) from big systems-level scales down to smaller (but still big, my Confirmation homunculus argues) scales like that of individual organisms. So, here I am thinking a person can be foxy about their own narrativity and you pop out of the horse and hit me with the fact that in the article, the reflective agents are small and many, providing a parallax onto the systemic attributes being estimated. But in an individual organism, the reflective agent is on the same scale as the attributes being estimated. Thanks for doing that now instead of waiting a few months so that I'd have forgotten about accepting that lovely wooden horse. On 5/8/19 11:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Their examples were more about (big) systems-level phenomena, anyway. So it is true by construction that breadth is needed. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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My homunculus is not a dadblasted larva. Good job by a couple of officers in the US Navy Medical Corps. Two such physicians did a biopsy on my scaly knee when I was 8. They removed a pea-sized piece of skin and said that that their presumptive diagnosis of psoriasis was correct and that there's no cure. ----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Wed, May 8, 2019, 6:45 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote: I don't know about your Confirmation homunculus, but you mentioned migraines. Another diagnosis? Could the homunculus be a real *thing*? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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