Re: [WedTech] The nature of ISIS
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Re: [WedTech] The nature of ISIS
 
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Oops, I just noticed this is not a Friam discussion, but WedTech. I think its more appropriately on Friam, WedTech being more "local" and "technical". Forgive the cross post please. Friam: This is a discussion on a recent, quite serious, Atlantic post on ISIS which seems authentic. I'd like any of us who have actually read the Koran, along with the prophet's other writings, could comment on the article. -- Owen On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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On 02/20/2015 03:11 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?fb_ref=Default It took me awhile to read that (and a few of its criticisms). A handful of thoughts popped up while reading it. But none of them came even slightly close to fear[*]. ISIS seems like a typical fanatical cult, to me. And, as such, it will end in the same silliness as other fanatical cults, about as dramatic as Heaven's Gate, but I suppose causing way more damage by objective measures. After having read it (and its criticisms), all I'm left with is a sadness at people's consistent and continual ability to believe their own bullsh!t. It reinforces my condemnation of the certainty with which all believers believe whatever nonsense it is they believe, including atheists and scientismists. And anyone who "takes up arms" to achieve anything other than harm reduction, is falling into the exact same ideological trap the believers are in. So, escalating the rhetoric to "be afraid, be very afraid" is reprehensible, I think. We aren't afraid of these perverted savants. We have systems for dealing with them, as long as we can invoke and execute those methods without freaking out and without imprisoning ourselves within our own ideological nonsense. [*] Granted, here at my safe distance, the only type of fear I could possibly feel is existential or eschatological, a type of fear that really only seems to afflict true believers of one ideology or another, anyway. So, saying the article doesn't evoke fear in me is a trivial statement, except as part of the reasoning toward my last point above. It does make me kindasorta regret that I didn't try to join the NSA when I had the chance, though. Perhaps I would be in a better position to reduce the harm caused by these idiot savants ... probably not, though, given the amount of navel gazing the NSA seems to do. -- ⇔ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Glen writes:
``And anyone who "takes up arms" to achieve anything other than harm reduction, is falling into the exact same ideological trap the believers are in. '' Harm can only be defined. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Re: [WedTech] The nature of ISIS
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
I have read the Koran (only in English, I'm afraid), and I work with Muslims in the Middle East. This is the best article so far written about ISIS. It confirms everything I've been told. And for further insight, if you don't know much about how we got to this point, read the magisterial "Lawrence IN Arabia" by Scott Anderson. I don't think Wood in his Atlantic article mentioned the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, which divided the Ottoman Empire chop chop at will between Britain and France. Revenge has been long in coming. On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA [hidden email] mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merlelefkoff ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] The nature of ISIS
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I'd be interested in takes on this follow-up: What The Atlantic Left Out About ISIS According To Their Own Expert http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/02/20/3625446/atlantic-left-isis-conversation-bernard-haykel/ On 03/10/2015 04:44 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote: > I have read the Koran (only in English, I'm afraid), and I work with > Muslims in the Middle East. This is the best article so far written about > ISIS. It confirms everything I've been told. And for further insight, if > you don't know much about how we got to this point, read the magisterial > "Lawrence IN Arabia" by Scott Anderson. I don't think Wood in his Atlantic > article mentioned the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, which divided the > Ottoman Empire chop chop at will between Britain and France. Revenge has > been long in coming. > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Oops, I just noticed this is not a Friam discussion, but WedTech. I think >> its more appropriately on Friam, WedTech being more "local" and >> "technical". Forgive the cross post please. >> >> Friam: This is a discussion on a recent, quite serious, Atlantic post on >> ISIS which seems authentic. >> >> http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?fb_ref=Default >> >> I'd like any of us who have actually read the Koran, along with the >> prophet's other writings, could comment on the article. >> >> -- Owen >> -- ⇔ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] The nature of ISIS
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Merle, Which one is the best article? In other words, if you only had the patience to read one of the articles in this thread, which on would it be? Cody Smith On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:15 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:
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