Re: [WedTech] Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

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Re: [WedTech] Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Owen Densmore
Administrator
[Note: widened from wedtech to include friam, see attached.]

From /.: Advocacy Group Files FCC Complaint Over Verizon Tethering Ban
        http://goo.gl/ynL9A 

I believe I now am in the same spot with android as with iphone: I will have to at least jail break any phone I own, and heck, might as well unlock it while I'm at it.

This surprises me.  Android was to be the hacker's delight, a Google "no evil" phone that allows me to use it as I please.  Not a sissy iphone where Apple rules my life and limits my options.

After yesterdays announcement of the iTunes cloud (where they store not only your bought media in their cloud, but any CDs you rip and have in iTunes!!), I'm rethinking just how free Google etc are over Apple.

I still plan to complete my conversion to gmail, and the Google ecology has lots of advantages.  But Apple is gaining fast with everything (mail, contacts, calendar, music, bookmarks, ...) in iCloud and accessible everywhere.

If this works, and that's a big IF, and if they can be cross-platform .. at least windows if not linux/unix (a bigger IF!), Google will start to look like a chaotic mess of non-integrated parts while Apple, once again, solves the user's problem.
        http://daringfireball.net/2011/06/demoted

  -- Owen


On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

> The Vibrant came with tethering and wifi hotspot applications installed, but I haven't tried them.
>
> You want an unlocked phone, then buy a Nexus-S.  Consider it a $500 vote for the phone you want to use.  You want a subsidized phone, then be prepared to put up with all the crapware and attempts to control your usage that the manufacturers and carriers feel like trying out on you.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought android was "open" .. i.e. you could install just about anything you'd like.
>
> But I just read about tethering wifi, and the story had options from rooting the phone to fairly expensive (and dubious) "apps".
>
> So what's the deal here.  Is it "open"?  Or am I back to hacking my phone like I had to do with iPhone jailbrake/unlock?  Or is it somewhere in between.
>
> How many of us are tethering wifi nowadays?  Do the carriers care?
>
>       -- Owen

        -- Owen


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Re: [WedTech] Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Gillian Densmore
I had a short discution with some friends sort of related to the iOS
vs Android topic and it came down to this:
iOS is a bit more forgiving on the end user end and by and large has a
set audiance, while Android has a bit more diversity.
Company politics company polotics... I guess it realy comes down to:
Ok so wich companies model do you prefer? Android (at least for the
moment) being more "cloud" centric-some free apps some for pay (though
cheep) apps? Where as iOS you have only one phone. Some Android OS
phones do target specific audiances wich even the relatively
conservative CNET has critisized (such as motorolas Defty and Droid).
From reviews the Galaxy netpad and phone are relatively light in terms
of preinstalled apps.I don't know anything about the icloud it might
be a bit early to say-googles been in the cloud model for longer than
apple. On the other hand Apples has been in the OS and Computing
business long enough that they could have a sexy nich.  The question
you may want to ask yourself though is since both companies are being
dicks which one is the smaller dick?
All cariers suck to be honest. Though verizon slightly less so.
And yes to 'do as I please" with a netpad and or AndroidOS phone
you'll need to be prepared to pay a lot. Although with a few small
exceptions everyphone and netpad have some mechanic to unlock them.
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [Note: widened from wedtech to include friam, see attached.]
>
> From /.: Advocacy Group Files FCC Complaint Over Verizon Tethering Ban
>        http://goo.gl/ynL9A
>
> I believe I now am in the same spot with android as with iphone: I will have to at least jail break any phone I own, and heck, might as well unlock it while I'm at it.
>
> This surprises me.  Android was to be the hacker's delight, a Google "no evil" phone that allows me to use it as I please.  Not a sissy iphone where Apple rules my life and limits my options.
>
> After yesterdays announcement of the iTunes cloud (where they store not only your bought media in their cloud, but any CDs you rip and have in iTunes!!), I'm rethinking just how free Google etc are over Apple.
>
> I still plan to complete my conversion to gmail, and the Google ecology has lots of advantages.  But Apple is gaining fast with everything (mail, contacts, calendar, music, bookmarks, ...) in iCloud and accessible everywhere.
>
> If this works, and that's a big IF, and if they can be cross-platform .. at least windows if not linux/unix (a bigger IF!), Google will start to look like a chaotic mess of non-integrated parts while Apple, once again, solves the user's problem.
>        http://daringfireball.net/2011/06/demoted
>
>  -- Owen
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>
>> The Vibrant came with tethering and wifi hotspot applications installed, but I haven't tried them.
>>
>> You want an unlocked phone, then buy a Nexus-S.  Consider it a $500 vote for the phone you want to use.  You want a subsidized phone, then be prepared to put up with all the crapware and attempts to control your usage that the manufacturers and carriers feel like trying out on you.
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I thought android was "open" .. i.e. you could install just about anything you'd like.
>>
>> But I just read about tethering wifi, and the story had options from rooting the phone to fairly expensive (and dubious) "apps".
>>
>> So what's the deal here.  Is it "open"?  Or am I back to hacking my phone like I had to do with iPhone jailbrake/unlock?  Or is it somewhere in between.
>>
>> How many of us are tethering wifi nowadays?  Do the carriers care?
>>
>>       -- Owen
>
>        -- Owen
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

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Re: [WedTech] Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Owen Densmore
Administrator
In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
On Jun 7, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Tom Johnson wrote:

> See this:  Rooting Your Android Phone: FAQ http://www.pcworld.com/article/214697/article.html#tk.nl_pvx_h_crawl
>
> I'm using a variety of apps -- primarily DropBox, but others like Gladinet.com  -- that sync everything to my Cloud storage without anything that Apple might come up with.

Good pointer, thanks.

I've had to "jailbreak" then "unlock" my iPhone.  I believe "rooting" is equivalent to jailbreak, right?

I'm not sure if I need to unlock the phone myself, tmobile has always been willing to send me the codes for it when I travel to europe.  And I certainly don't want to unlock just to go to ATT!

   -- Owen


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Re: Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Eric Charles
In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
Glen,
If by "enslaved to a corporate cabal" you mean that I use my cell phone mostly as a phone, I can tell you it doesn't feel that bad. Personally, I have trouble imagining why anyone would want to do otherwise. The complaints of people who have to 'go through the trouble' to jailbreak iPhones, for example, strike me as silly. If you don't like what the iPhone is, why did you buy one? It's like someone who buys a new house and then complains it is not laid out the way they want, and then complains about how hard it was to redo the floor plan: You know there were other houses, right? You know it was a perfectly functional house already, right?

Now, I'm not against tinkering with things. If you are the type of person that likes to buy things intended for one purpose and modify them for other purposes, then I support you, and am at times a comrade in arms. But if that were the case, there would be no reason to complain.

Ah well, slave signing out,

Eric

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 12:43 PM, "glen e. p. ropella" <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is more about the hardware manufacturer and the service provider,
not the operating system.  FWIW, Samsung is very friendly.  I have a
Motorola.  They're relatively neutral.  Verizon is not friendly.  Apple
is an enemy.  T-Mobile is neutral.  Cricket is friendly (so far).

I can't imagine anyone _not_ rooting their phone and replacing their
operating system at will.  It boggles my mind that so many tech savvy
people enslave themselves to a corporate cabal.

Owen Densmore wrote at 06/07/2011 09:27 AM:
> [Note: widened from wedtech to include friam, see attached.]
> 
>From /.: Advocacy Group Files FCC Complaint Over Verizon Tethering Ban
> 	http://goo.gl/ynL9A 
> 
> I believe I now am in the same spot with android as with iphone: I will
have to at least jail break any phone I own, and heck, might as well unlock it
while I'm at it.
> 
> This surprises me.  Android was to be the hacker's delight, a Google
"no evil" phone that allows me to use it as I please.  Not a sissy
iphone where Apple rules my life and limits my options.
> 
> After yesterdays announcement of the iTunes cloud (where they store
not only your bought media in their cloud, but any CDs you rip and have in
iTunes!!), I'm rethinking just how free Google etc are over Apple.
> 
> I still plan to complete my conversion to gmail, and the Google ecology
has lots of advantages.  But Apple is gaining fast with everything (mail,
contacts, calendar, music, bookmarks, ...) in iCloud and accessible
everywhere.
> 
> If this works, and that's a big IF, and if they can be cross-platform ..
at least windows if not linux/unix (a bigger IF!), Google will start
to look like a chaotic mess of non-integrated parts while Apple, once again,
solves the user's problem.
> 	http://daringfireball.net/2011/06/demoted


-- 
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://tempusdictum.com


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601



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Re: Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Steve Smith
I completely appreciate the sentiment of hacking things to do what they weren't intended to do.

I also am sympathetic with the irritation with corporate deals that leave us with products that have what feel like arbitrary restrictions (iPhone only works with ATT)...

But at the same time... I agree with Eric's point...   vote with your feet (wallet).
  I've a friend whose first response to any new interesting piece of tech is:
I can't wait to run that thing through a band saw!

Glen,
If by "enslaved to a corporate cabal" you mean that I use my cell phone mostly as a phone, I can tell you it doesn't feel that bad. Personally, I have trouble imagining why anyone would want to do otherwise. The complaints of people who have to 'go through the trouble' to jailbreak iPhones, for example, strike me as silly. If you don't like what the iPhone is, why did you buy one? It's like someone who buys a new house and then complains it is not laid out the way they want, and then complains about how hard it was to redo the floor plan: You know there were other houses, right? You know it was a perfectly functional house already, right?

Now, I'm not against tinkering with things. If you are the type of person that likes to buy things intended for one purpose and modify them for other purposes, then I support you, and am at times a comrade in arms. But if that were the case, there would be no reason to complain.

Ah well, slave signing out,

Eric

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 12:43 PM, "glen e. p. ropella" [hidden email] wrote:
This is more about the hardware manufacturer and the service provider,
not the operating system.  FWIW, Samsung is very friendly.  I have a
Motorola.  They're relatively neutral.  Verizon is not friendly.  Apple
is an enemy.  T-Mobile is neutral.  Cricket is friendly (so far).

I can't imagine anyone _not_ rooting their phone and replacing their
operating system at will.  It boggles my mind that so many tech savvy
people enslave themselves to a corporate cabal.

Owen Densmore wrote at 06/07/2011 09:27 AM:
> [Note: widened from wedtech to include friam, see attached.]
> 
>From /.: Advocacy Group Files FCC Complaint Over Verizon Tethering Ban
> 	http://goo.gl/ynL9A 
> 
> I believe I now am in the same spot with android as with iphone: I will
have to at least jail break any phone I own, and heck, might as well unlock it
while I'm at it.
> 
> This surprises me.  Android was to be the hacker's delight, a Google
"no evil" phone that allows me to use it as I please.  Not a sissy
iphone where Apple rules my life and limits my options.
> 
> After yesterdays announcement of the iTunes cloud (where they store
not only your bought media in their cloud, but any CDs you rip and have in
iTunes!!), I'm rethinking just how free Google etc are over Apple.
> 
> I still plan to complete my conversion to gmail, and the Google ecology
has lots of advantages.  But Apple is gaining fast with everything (mail,
contacts, calendar, music, bookmarks, ...) in iCloud and accessible
everywhere.
> 
> If this works, and that's a big IF, and if they can be cross-platform ..
at least windows if not linux/unix (a bigger IF!), Google will start
to look like a chaotic mess of non-integrated parts while Apple, once again,
solves the user's problem.
> 	http://daringfireball.net/2011/06/demoted


-- 
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://tempusdictum.com


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601


============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


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Re: [WedTech] Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Joshua Thorp
In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
>  (mail, contacts, calendar, music, bookmarks, ...)

Which of these didn't google have in the cloud before apple? ;)



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Re: Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

glen ropella
In reply to this post by Eric Charles
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 06/07/2011 12:59 PM:
> If by "enslaved to a corporate cabal" you mean that I use my cell phone
> mostly as a phone,

No, it really has nothing to do with _how_ you use any given device.
It's more about what you're paying for.  Did you pay for an actual
_thing_ or did you pay for a key to a door or facility, someone else's
property?

The whole SaaS paradigm is reprehensible to a given degree.  You "buy" a
phone and you really don't own anything.  What you've "bought" is really
a fake, kinda startup fee.[*]  If you stop paying the monthly fee, that
initial $100 or $150 is lost in the wind.

If they were more honest about it, they'd treat these devices like the
cable companies or ISPs treat their modems.  You either buy the thing
outright (and admit that it'll be largely useless when you quit) or you
lease it during the time you use their service.

> Personally,
> I have trouble imagining why anyone would want to do otherwise. The
> complaints of people who have to 'go through the trouble' to jailbreak
> iPhones, for example, strike me as silly. If you don't like what the
> iPhone is, why did you buy one? It's like someone who buys a new house
> and then complains it is not laid out the way they want, and then
> complains about how hard it was to redo the floor plan: You know there
> were other houses, right? You know it was a perfectly functional house
> already, right?

I suppose there are two ways to think about this.  (There are 2 types of
people in the world: 1) those who divide the people in the world into 2
types and 2) those who don't.)

1) There are those of us who find satisfaction in _doing_ rather than
having, and

2) There are those of us who enjoy "nesting", i.e. surrounding ourselves
with our own accomplishments.

(1) and (2) are, by no means, disjoint.  When I look at my phone, I see
things that I've achieved (on the shoulders of giants, of course).
That's satisfying to some extent.  Similarly, when the phone behaves in
some way that I didn't expect, it is relatively trivial for me to figure
out why it behaved that way and why I expected something different.  Had
I not rooted it and replaced the OS, this would not be the case.  The
former is a result of (2) and the latter is a result of (1).

If you think either (1) or (2) are silly, then we are at a rhetorical
impasse. ;-)

What boggles my mind are the tech-savvy people who seem to blank out on
some things.  Like a programmer who can't change their own oil.  Or a
mechanic who is baffled by computers.  By saying it boggles me, I'm not
implying that they are _silly_, or wrong, or whatever.  It just confuses
me.  It seems that you either want to know how things work, or you
don't.  It is _so_ EASY to root and replace the OS on Android phones
that I can't imagine any tech savvy person with disposable income _not_
doing so.

[*] There's also a kind of "consumerist", disposable culture, influence
at work, here.  If you don't/can't root and replace the OS on your cell
phone, then that phone is a lot like a Bic lighter or disposable razor.
 Your supposed to use it once, then throw it into some landfill because
it's become useless.  Now, I'm no tree-hugging liberal.  But it seems to
me that this disposable computer culture lacks an ability to account for
its externalities.  I should be able to use my phone for many years.
And if, in order to do that, I have to maintain the OS _myself_, then I
should be allowed to do so.  I used my G1 long past the point where
T-Mobile was pushing updates only because I used CyanogenMod.  And when
I finally found the $$ to buy a new phone, I passed that old G1 on to a
less fortunate, but more geeky, friend who is still using it.  I can say
the same about many of the desk- and lap-tops around my house.  And when
they are finally of no use to me, I give them to FreeGeek.org, who
refurbishes them and gives them to people who don't have computers.  It
just seems reasonable to me; but perhaps I've drunk too much Kool Aid?

--
glen

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Re: Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

Russ Abbott
I understand wanting to know how things work.  My problem is that I don't have the time to work on all the things that I might work on.  If I had an Android phone (I don't but not for any important reason), I doubt that I would have the time to work on it. There are too many other things I want to spend my time doing. 

My wife's computer is always doing something flaky. I'm the one she looks to for help.  Often it's not too much of a hassle. But there are times when it takes forever to track down what's wrong.  I don't want to spend too much of my time doing that--even though it's nice to find out what's really going on.  My life is full enough with technology that I often really like having a gadget that just works--and I don't have to think about it. In fact, that should be one of the selling points of the iPhone and iPad. My complaint about them is that they don't live up to that promise.
 
-- Russ 


On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:
ERIC P. CHARLES wrote at 06/07/2011 12:59 PM:
> If by "enslaved to a corporate cabal" you mean that I use my cell phone
> mostly as a phone,

No, it really has nothing to do with _how_ you use any given device.
It's more about what you're paying for.  Did you pay for an actual
_thing_ or did you pay for a key to a door or facility, someone else's
property?

The whole SaaS paradigm is reprehensible to a given degree.  You "buy" a
phone and you really don't own anything.  What you've "bought" is really
a fake, kinda startup fee.[*]  If you stop paying the monthly fee, that
initial $100 or $150 is lost in the wind.

If they were more honest about it, they'd treat these devices like the
cable companies or ISPs treat their modems.  You either buy the thing
outright (and admit that it'll be largely useless when you quit) or you
lease it during the time you use their service.

> Personally,
> I have trouble imagining why anyone would want to do otherwise. The
> complaints of people who have to 'go through the trouble' to jailbreak
> iPhones, for example, strike me as silly. If you don't like what the
> iPhone is, why did you buy one? It's like someone who buys a new house
> and then complains it is not laid out the way they want, and then
> complains about how hard it was to redo the floor plan: You know there
> were other houses, right? You know it was a perfectly functional house
> already, right?

I suppose there are two ways to think about this.  (There are 2 types of
people in the world: 1) those who divide the people in the world into 2
types and 2) those who don't.)

1) There are those of us who find satisfaction in _doing_ rather than
having, and

2) There are those of us who enjoy "nesting", i.e. surrounding ourselves
with our own accomplishments.

(1) and (2) are, by no means, disjoint.  When I look at my phone, I see
things that I've achieved (on the shoulders of giants, of course).
That's satisfying to some extent.  Similarly, when the phone behaves in
some way that I didn't expect, it is relatively trivial for me to figure
out why it behaved that way and why I expected something different.  Had
I not rooted it and replaced the OS, this would not be the case.  The
former is a result of (2) and the latter is a result of (1).

If you think either (1) or (2) are silly, then we are at a rhetorical
impasse. ;-)

What boggles my mind are the tech-savvy people who seem to blank out on
some things.  Like a programmer who can't change their own oil.  Or a
mechanic who is baffled by computers.  By saying it boggles me, I'm not
implying that they are _silly_, or wrong, or whatever.  It just confuses
me.  It seems that you either want to know how things work, or you
don't.  It is _so_ EASY to root and replace the OS on Android phones
that I can't imagine any tech savvy person with disposable income _not_
doing so.

[*] There's also a kind of "consumerist", disposable culture, influence
at work, here.  If you don't/can't root and replace the OS on your cell
phone, then that phone is a lot like a Bic lighter or disposable razor.
 Your supposed to use it once, then throw it into some landfill because
it's become useless.  Now, I'm no tree-hugging liberal.  But it seems to
me that this disposable computer culture lacks an ability to account for
its externalities.  I should be able to use my phone for many years.
And if, in order to do that, I have to maintain the OS _myself_, then I
should be allowed to do so.  I used my G1 long past the point where
T-Mobile was pushing updates only because I used CyanogenMod.  And when
I finally found the $$ to buy a new phone, I passed that old G1 on to a
less fortunate, but more geeky, friend who is still using it.  I can say
the same about many of the desk- and lap-tops around my house.  And when
they are finally of no use to me, I give them to FreeGeek.org, who
refurbishes them and gives them to people who don't have computers.  It
just seems reasonable to me; but perhaps I've drunk too much Kool Aid?

--
glen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


============================================================
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Re: Android: Root It? Or are there phones that come unlocked/jailbroken?

glen ropella
Russ Abbott wrote at 06/07/2011 04:11 PM:
> often really like having a gadget that just works--and I don't have to
> think about it. In fact, that should be one of the selling points of the
> iPhone and iPad. My complaint about them is that they don't live up to
> that promise.

I understand.  To me this is the greatest confidence scheme we've ever
experienced.  Technology (tools) does not solve problems, regardless of
how often or how vehemently the tool producers claim they do.  Tools
don't solve problems.  Tool users solve problems.

So, it's a shock when we snap out of it and realize that we've been
conned.  Anyone who promises that a given tool or device that "just
works" is selling snake oil and ocean front property in Nevada.

--
glen

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