Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
 
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I'm writing a script that I realize might be useful for friends, and
that got me to wondering: what scripting languages are most universally available? So, you can help: which of these languages are available on your computer? Bash/Borne Shell Awk Perl Python/Jython Ruby/irb Javascript (i.e. a command-line version like Rhino) Groovy BeanShell/PNuts (java interpreters with nifty add on features) .. suggestions? I suppose everyone has a browser, so that it could be used for either a local or remote script in java and javascript. I leave Java/C/C++ etc out because the are not "scripting" languages but "systems" languages. Interpretive is fine. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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On Christmas Day?
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: I'm writing a script that I realize might be useful for friends, -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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On Dec 25, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> On Christmas Day? > > On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> I'm writing a script that I realize might be useful for friends, Er, well yes. You see, we had to take a break from opening presents and all that, and reading one of my presents brought this up, so it really is a Christmas sort of thing. I know *your* answer to the poll: All and More Too! Hmm.. shoulda included VB. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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I've got a fun Christmas Eve story to share in a bit. After I upload the video to youtube...
--Doug On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Ho ho ho--you're not the only ones on your computer.
Owen, I finally saw the article about your neighbor across the street and his cash grocery. Have you tried the tamales? On Dec 25, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: I've got a fun Christmas Eve story to share in a bit. After I upload the video to youtube... Pamela McCorduck ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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On Dec 25, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
> Ho ho ho--you're not the only ones on your computer. > > Owen, I finally saw the article about your neighbor across the > street and his cash grocery. Have you tried the tamales? Yes indeed, and I think Johnnie's tamales are the best in town. We are also quite close with Boni Armijo, Johnnie's son, a contractor who works on our casita, along with his son, Johnnie's grandson, Jovan. And Boni/Jovan give out tamales and biscochitos for christmas gifts! -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck
A group of musician friends of mine have a tradition of playing at the Canyon Road Christmas Eve Luminario tour (a Santa Fe Christmas tradition). We walk from bonfire to bonfire, where we stop and play a few Christmas carols.
This year, we had a chance encounter with James Taylor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcAx48_nVDk Thanks, James! --Doug
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
[c|ba]sh
awk sed perl python ruby javascript lisp/scheme c# mozart/oz php prolog R BeanShell tcl/tk Thus spake Owen Densmore circa 12/25/2008 01:13 PM: > So, you can help: which of these languages are available on your computer? > Bash/Borne Shell > Awk > Perl > Python/Jython > Ruby/irb > Javascript (i.e. a command-line version like Rhino) > Groovy > BeanShell/PNuts (java interpreters with nifty add on features) > .. suggestions? -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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[c|ba]sh
awk sed perl python #ruby javascript #lisp/scheme Come on. Really. LISP? Scheme?? Happy living in the past, are we? # c# Icky #mozart/oz I'm esoteric. Are you? php # prolog How '70's. R # BeanShell What?? I can script. Slowly. "Hello World." [Time passes] BeanShell: "Hello" tcl/tk On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 4:30 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote: [c|ba]sh -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 12/25/2008 03:40 PM:
> #lisp/scheme Come on. Really. LISP? Scheme?? Happy living in the > past, are we? > # c# Icky > #mozart/oz I'm esoteric. Are you? > # prolog How '70's. How snarky. I hope that's working out for you. I tend to believe that every problem has at least one "natural" language. Solutions to that problem should (where reasonable) be formulated in its natural language, regardless of the age or obscurity of the language. Plus, I use a lot of legacy tools, written in a lot of different languages. I'd rather keep a rich tech stack than spend time rewriting everything from scratch just so I can have it in a particular language. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Well, actually, it was supposed to be funny. I worked in LISP for a lot of years. When a colleague suggested that I should learn Scheme (WAYYYYY back in the early 90's, mind you), that language's time had already come and gone.
IMO, Age and Obscurity (in languages, at least) are mutually reinforcing resonant death knells. In Snarkiness, --Doug On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 5:14 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote: Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 12/25/2008 03:40 PM: -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Slashdot article topical to this thread (i.e. dead technology that hasn't had the good grace to politely stop breathing yet):
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/25/1952258 Tech approaches come and go. The trick is to catch the wave, and not fall off. Off Topic: Owen: how do you consistently manage to find such controversial topics to present to the list? Yes, it *is* your fault! ;-} --Doug On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote: Well, actually, it was supposed to be funny. I worked in LISP for a lot of years. When a colleague suggested that I should learn Scheme (WAYYYYY back in the early 90's, mind you), that language's time had already come and gone. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 12/25/2008 04:27 PM:
> IMO, Age and Obscurity (in languages, at least) are mutually reinforcing > resonant death knells. Naaa. I'm a big fan of old, obscure artifacts. They flesh out the context through which homogenous fad-followers plow. It seems like our (the US) bias toward forgetting history and diversity and teaching only the lowest common denominator, most current fad, or toward the most likely future is the primary reason we have a trash culture. Rather than re-sole that old pair of boots or fix the transmission in that old car, we prefer to junk the old stuff and buy brand new stuff (usually made in China). The hip and trendy fads are great for preoccupying the teenager's (or politician's) mind; but for any serious work, one should consider as much historical context as possible in order to make wise decisions in the present. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Can't argue with much of that. Maybe Obama his professed trend towards New Enlightenment will turn this current anti-intellectual trend around.
Naaa. On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 6:11 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote: Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 12/25/2008 04:27 PM: -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by glen e. p. ropella-2
I'm also a fan of old, obscure artifacts such as Lisp - heck,
sometimes I feel like I'm becoming one myself. I did my graduate AI research using Franz Lisp in the early 1980s and was fortunate to have the opportunity to use Lisp machines in corporate R&D for several years before the onset of "AI Winter." I really enjoyed the language, but because of a backlash against the excess AI hype, Lisp fell out of favor and industry moved toward more "modern" languages such as C++ (ouch). Lately, I've become facinated with Common Lisp and have started learning it in my spare time. My gut feeling is that despite the hype its ardent supporters such as Paul Graham spout, claims of greatly improved programmer productivity from Lisp have real merit. Besides, there is a certain charm to using a language that is older than me - this year Lisp celebrated its 50th birthday (see www.lisp50.org ) exactly one week before I celebrated my 50th birthday. Although it has been pronounced dead quite a few times, as one Lisper put it, "Lisp doesn't look any deader than usual to me." ;; Gary On Dec 25, 2008, at 8:11 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote: > Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 12/25/2008 04:27 PM: >> IMO, Age and Obscurity (in languages, at least) are mutually >> reinforcing >> resonant death knells. > > Naaa. I'm a big fan of old, obscure artifacts. They flesh out the > context through which homogenous fad-followers plow. It seems like > our > (the US) bias toward forgetting history and diversity and teaching > only > the lowest common denominator, most current fad, or toward the most > likely future is the primary reason we have a trash culture. Rather > than re-sole that old pair of boots or fix the transmission in that > old > car, we prefer to junk the old stuff and buy brand new stuff (usually > made in China). > > The hip and trendy fads are great for preoccupying the teenager's (or > politician's) mind; but for any serious work, one should consider as > much historical context as possible in order to make wise decisions in > the present. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008, Owen Densmore wrote:
> I'm writing a script that I realize might be useful for friends, and that got > me to wondering: what scripting languages are most universally available? > > So, you can help: which of these languages are available on your computer? > Bash/Borne Shell > Awk > Perl > Python/Jython > Ruby/irb > Javascript (i.e. a command-line version like Rhino) > Groovy > BeanShell/PNuts (java interpreters with nifty add on features) > .. suggestions? All current Macs running OS X 10.5.x should have GNU Bash 3.2.17 (1), Awk ver. 20040207, Perl 5.8.8, Ruby 1.8.6, and Python 2.5.1 by default (this iMac does and every Mac I've checked running 10.5.x). I think all Linux versions will have Bash, Awk, Python by default. Bash, Awk/Sed, Perl and Python are all common, Ruby's usually an easy package install under most Linux distros. Personally (just my opinion) I think Python lends itself to order more so than PERL, but I'm sure there are more experienced programmers who might not agree. I think Bash is frequently underrated....one can do a lot with the shell if one knows how and is willing to do a bit of work. There's a great "Shell Scripting Recipes" book by Chris Johnson, along with the Robbins/Beebe book by O'Reilly and a number of other good ones. -Nick ------------------------------ Nicholas S. Frost 7 Avenida Vista Grande #325 Santa Fe, NM 87508 www.nickorama.com ------------------------------ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Snarf!
I don't think I've heard this term ("Snarky") used in "forever"... but sadly/strangely/wonderfully, it does describe Doug's style of humor. Knowing Doug pretty well and being on the Snarky end of his humor from time to time (always well deserved and returned, I must add) I can understand how the extra row of kinked barbs along the shaft of his snarky lampoons can gouge and dig if you don't already have some scarred over lacerations (shaped to fit) to turn them aside. I love all of my legacy languages, just as much as I love the growing pile of "old tech" in my shed (Wicat Unix box, Sun 1, Toaster Mac, NeXT, SGI 02, etc... ). Not to mention all of the wondrous vehicles I've owned, and am proud to share with anyone likely to appreciate them. A few potential targets of derision out of my nearly 40 vehicles (planes, trains, automobiles, tractors, motorcycles, etc.) include a '65 Fairlane, a '73 Gremlin, a '72 Maverick, a '71 Suzuki 350 2-stroke, '67 VW beetle, '69 Datsun 510, etc... But don't dare make fun of my '47 Luscombe Aerocoupe, '72 Honda SL350, '85 Kubota 6500 4x4, '49 dump truck, the '64 T-bird, the '64 VW convertible, the '86 VW Cabriolet, or my '03 Nissan Crew 4x4! My daily drivers are C++ and Java and I can be cajoled into taking PERL and *sh variants out for a spin now and then. The APL and Snobol and Prolog manuals on my self (actually on the shelf at the sfComplex self-organizing library) are all old friends which I open as often as the Haynes repair manual for my long-lost '73 Gremlin! I loved those languages (and that Gremlin!). Snarf! - Steve
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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Hmm..I think there's a simpler question that I would like to ask:
What language could I write a script in (no graphics, simply text in, text out) that would run on all the computers used by Friam folks? I guess the most likely answer is "none" just use the browser and build a trivial web-app. But still, I'm interested in the language most likely to be on your systems. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Poll: which scripting languages are available on your computer?
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"None" is probably the right answer, given that the two primary proprietary OS vendors are naturally driven to sell apps for their systems that are incompatible with their competitors platforms, in an attempt to boost their own OS sales. Java was the first attempt to produce a "write once" language, but it has to date had limited success. You might have a chance with Python or Perl, depending on what you wanted your script to do. "Hello World" should be possible, but when you progress to a real world level of complexity the OS incompatibilities begin to bite.
Regarding a "simple web app": that is what Javascript was supposed to support, and look at all the browser-sniffing/blocking code that has evolved over the past 4 - 5 years due to incompatible browser implementations. --Doug On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: Hmm..I think there's a simpler question that I would like to ask: ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
The impact of snark on reproducibility
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Thus spake Steve Smith circa 12/26/2008 01:10 PM:
> I don't think I've heard this term ("Snarky") used in "forever"... but > sadly/strangely/wonderfully, it does describe Doug's style of humor. Knowing > Doug pretty well and being on the Snarky end of his humor from time to time > (always well deserved and returned, I must add) I can understand how the extra > row of kinked barbs along the shaft of his snarky lampoons can gouge and dig if > you don't already have some scarred over lacerations (shaped to fit) to turn > them aside. But it's not a matter of scar tissue! It's a matter of clarity, precision, and accuracy of communication. With the advent of remote (superset of "online") communication, we are faced with a lack of natural/intuitive context for much of our communications. In the same vein as the argument about well-established "mathematical" (more accurately termed "analytically tractable") models versus agent-based (more accurately termed "combinatorial") models, our communication _used_ to come with more context than it does in these modern days. Because Steve knows Doug pretty well, that context is present and the snarkiness doesn't _prevent_ clear communication. In fact, it probably enhances it. But for those of us who don't know Doug pretty well, snarkiness _degrades_ communication. It's like a non-English speaking Chinese person watching episodes of Saturday Night Live in order to learn English. Sarcasm, sardonicism, irony, and inside jokes rely on a well-accepted context with well-known infrastructure. Indeed, when that infrastructure is present, it allows the conversants to explore very subtle and sophisticated conceptual constructs. But when that infrastructure is absent, it fosters miscommunication and whatever particular psychological artifacts that may ensue from miscommunication. The same is true of scientific reproducibility in publications. Those who rely too strongly on a common foundation produce irreproducible crap. Yet those who attempt to expound on everything to facilitate reproduction lose their reader in useless detail (thereby producing irreproducible crap). The trick is to develop a conversational style that is a soft mix of exploitable common context and welcoming hooks into that context for those who don't have it. Of course, there are those who don't care about, or even purposefully oppose, clear communication. [grin] I seem to see many of these people trolling around interdisciplinary groups. My guess is that these people are some form of snake-oil salesmen who have a vested interest in obfuscating communication for their own self-serving ends. Interdisciplinary groups of people are particularly easy prey because many people have a natural timidity/humility and give the obfuscators the benefit of the doubt when they hear/read something overly jargonal or complicated. Of course, most snarky (sarcastic, sardonic, or ironic) expositions are not purposeful attempts at obfuscation. ("Never ascribe malice where incompetence will suffice.") On the other hand, many are. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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