OK. That's funny.
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On 8/5/20 8:37 PM, jon zingale wrote: > Sunchokes are very tasty. Do they grow easily out where you are? yes, they do particularly like water, but can suffer without too much... my best bed is near my (leaky) water faucet. The other bed I have going got (mostly) grazed out by my chickens who don't go after them harshly but have ultimately stopped them all excepting one which is about 7' tall with no leaves below about 3 feet... I caught one jumping up and grabbing a bite out of a lower leaf yesterday. I've a friend who grows them commercially who got started by simply going to Sprouts and buying up the tiniest nodules from their organic bin to plant... he says "much cheaper than seed stock, and just as viable/clean". I can't even remember where I got my first starts, they are very self-perpetuating... even if/when I dig them wihtout intentional re-seeding(rhizoming), they do come back from the (tiny?) fragments I apparently miss/leave. Not as dense as if I deliberately leave/break-off the smallest nodules to leave behind. They don't start in a new bed as easily as an old one, so I'm guessing there is some mycorhizomial thing going on that takes a season to re-establish. - Steve - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by jon zingale
Thought of another way, I can interpret Peirce-truthiness in terms of
alethic operators. Let's say that an apt-belief is Peirce-true if it belongs to the collection of everyone's potential apt-beliefs, in other words, they will be found to be necessarily apt-believable (□). This leaves the collection of apt-beliefs that at least one other person will never find believable, those that are possibly apt-believable (◇), and doomed to never be Peirce-true. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
I am so happy to hear that there may be hope for growing sunchokes here in
town. Sarah is always looking for plants that do well in this climate, and can even be sympathetic to plants others find unsavory for their voraciousness (tree of heaven, for instance). She likes the weeds for their compost and we are always working to turn the soil. She has some potatoes growing here and there and she is careful to collect the seeds of all of the flowers around the yard. We also have a leaky faucet that might be good for growing sunchokes, though harvesting so close to the house may be a problem. Are you at all involved in the New Mexico Mycology Society? I had gone to one of their meetups some years ago but lost contact with them. They seem like a really cool bunch. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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How do you prepare sunchokes? I planted some from the farmers market about ten years ago in my parents garden. They are still coming up. It would be great to know how to prepare them. I find that they don't taste great and act as a bit of a laxative. Another plant that is working its way back from the stigma of being labeled a weed is Amaranth 🥗. It grows better than the goat heads in my yard. Speaking of which, if anyone knows a way to eat goat heads let me know. I have quite a crop this year. On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:17 AM jon zingale <[hidden email]> wrote: I am so happy to hear that there may be hope for growing sunchokes here in - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Ahhh, "sunchokes".
Put in a bunch when we first moved to the Mosquito Infested Bog in 1970. They thrived pretty much on their on for 20 years. Didn't much like the flavor, myself, so we didn't bother them much. The sugar is a pentose, I think. The flowers were nice. My cousin liked them, and so we did always dig some for Easter dinner, first crop of the season, along with the parsnips, if the voles would let us have some of those. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [hidden email] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:53 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [FRIAM] Sunchoke rhizomes On 8/5/20 8:37 PM, jon zingale wrote: > Sunchokes are very tasty. Do they grow easily out where you are? yes, they do particularly like water, but can suffer without too much... my best bed is near my (leaky) water faucet. The other bed I have going got (mostly) grazed out by my chickens who don't go after them harshly but have ultimately stopped them all excepting one which is about 7' tall with no leaves below about 3 feet... I caught one jumping up and grabbing a bite out of a lower leaf yesterday. I've a friend who grows them commercially who got started by simply going to Sprouts and buying up the tiniest nodules from their organic bin to plant... he says "much cheaper than seed stock, and just as viable/clean". I can't even remember where I got my first starts, they are very self-perpetuating... even if/when I dig them wihtout intentional re-seeding(rhizoming), they do come back from the (tiny?) fragments I apparently miss/leave. Not as dense as if I deliberately leave/break-off the smallest nodules to leave behind. They don't start in a new bed as easily as an old one, so I'm guessing there is some mycorhizomial thing going on that takes a season to re-establish. - Steve - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by cody dooderson
Ha!
https://www.desertortoisebotanicals.com/blogs/news/sonoran-plant-profile-puncture-vine You gotta love the internet. On 8/6/20 8:58 AM, cody dooderson wrote: > How do you prepare sunchokes? I planted some from the farmers market about ten years ago in my parents garden. They are still coming up. It would be great to know how to prepare them. I find that they don't taste great and act as a bit of a laxative. > Another plant that is working its way back from the stigma of being labeled a weed is Amaranth 🥗. It grows better than the goat heads in my yard. Speaking of which, if anyone knows a way to eat goat heads let me know. I have quite a crop this year. > > Cody Smith > > 🥗 https://mexiconewsdaily.com/mexicolife/growing-amaranth-is-an-ancestral-tradition/ -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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In reply to this post by cody dooderson
Ha, yeah, the goat heads are useless. I am one of those heathens that like
the taste of sunchokes raw. Amaranth is pretty great and I like their wine-colored tops. Does it do very well here? -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Ha, scratch that, I didn't realize that *terror of the earth* gives humans
more sexiness powers. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by gepr
I remember dealing with what my family called "goatheads" when I was a toddler in rural New Mexico. If you look at what my grandson calls prickers closely you can see a goat's head including two horns and a beard. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:13 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[hidden email]> wrote: Ha! - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Photo of goathead burrs: On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:27 AM Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by jon zingale
Jon,
I was the youngest in my family by many years and have the psychology of a tag-along. When you leap ahead like this, I feel like a little kid left behind in my bulky snowsuit in the deep snow, while my siblings, and the dog, bound off into the distance. "Hey, WAIT FOR ME!" One little scrap I can grasp at here, and perhaps make a contribution. There is a subtle point, perhaps a weakness in Peirce, to which the term "believable" points. Note the mode. "believable--that which is readily believed." But Peirce is pointing not to that but to "that which SHALL be believed" or "that which is fated to be believed" in the very long run. Not "credibles" but "credibilenda" . Now to the extent that the human cognitive system has been designed in the course of evolution to scope out the world humans live in, the two will be the same. But just because of the lesson hidden in the Sober machine (and the Law of Short Sighted Striving), it is easy to walk humans out of their zone of tolerance (known in the literature as the "environment of evolutionary adaptedness") and find propositions that are "believable", yet not "to be believed". That, for all its other faults, is one of the insights of evolutionary psychology. Thus, to the extent that our belief systems are embodied, that which we believe may not be that which we ought to believe. I don't think it makes any difference to your Haskell model, but the actual object that Sober used is not quite as complicated as you envision. The colored objects that are sorted differ only in size, as do the holes in the three levels of the "machine". Thus if you shake the toy long enough, the small (yellow) balls will find their way all the way to the bottom, the medium-sized (blue balls) to the middle, and fat red balls will be stuck at the top (or something like that). Size is the thing selected for, color the spandrel. If shape were the thing that was being selected, the toy would work only in infinite time, although, of course, the logic is the same, and therefore, this paragraph probably nugatory. How does a "citizen" such as myself appreciate your Haskell model. Is it possible to make visual out of it. Large red, medium sized brown, and tiny black ants all striving toward food through screens and only the black ants make it? Or is that just "eye-candy". What is the relation between the SoberSort and the concept of intention in your world. In my world, the INtension of the sort is that for which the balls are sorted; the EXtension is any characteristic that the sorted balls share. Thanks for all the thought you put into this. Please send the dog back to get me. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [hidden email] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:08 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] OK. That's funny. Thought of another way, I can interpret Peirce-truthiness in terms of alethic operators. Let's say that an apt-belief is Peirce-true if it belongs to the collection of everyone's potential apt-beliefs, in other words, they will be found to be necessarily apt-believable (□). This leaves the collection of apt-beliefs that at least one other person will never find believable, those that are possibly apt-believable (◇), and doomed to never be Peirce-true. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by cody dooderson
Cody -
> How do you prepare sunchokes? I planted some from the farmers market > about ten years ago in my parents garden. They are still coming up. It > would be great to know how to prepare them. I find that > they don't taste great and act as a bit of a laxative. I eat them both raw (sliced thin, eaten like jicama) and cooked (any way you might cook/eat a potato, turnip, or parsnip). My *ritual* is to dig a modest bunch before Thanksgiving and roast them with other root vegetables (roll in oil, salt/pepper/chile-powder) and smother them in mushroom gravy (sauteed mushrooms, nutritional yeast, spice to taste). Any leftovers, I then roll into what I know of as an "African Nut Stew" which is all of these root vegetables simmered in a curry sauce. Inspired by the term "nut" I often also add chestnuts, cashews, even boiled peanuts... the result is a very starchy but tasty "curry" suitable for pre-hibernation bulking up before retiring to your winter-cave. The cashews are "dear" enough and lose their unique nuttiness when overcooked, so I usually add them for the final "bake" and/or "simmer"... Harvesting them will help them spread (especially if you deliberately "reseed" but from my experience, even if you think you got them all, you didn't!) > Another plant that is working its way back from the stigma of being > labeled a weed is Amaranth 🥗. It grows better than the goat heads in > my yard. Speaking of which, if anyone knows a way to eat goat heads > let me know. I have quite a crop this year. I've had good luck with various strains of amaranth, but never have gotten around to eating it... Glen's link to "goatheads" or apparently "horny goat weed" reminds me that I grew up knowing of them as "bullheads" but in fact gave over to "goathead" as an adult. I'm guessing "bullhead" was a regional thing just as Frank's grandson applies the term "pickers". I was shocked when Tami (grew up in Wisconsin) moved into my house and called *everything* that sticks to you a "picker" which *I* of course, would call generically a "sticker".... but the logic of "picking them off your body/dog/shoes/tires" is equally solid. Of course goatheads have a very specific place in my personal house of horrors. From the way a mature (and dry) fruit/seedhead can drive right through the sole of a shoe or the thickest bicycle tire, to the residual irritation/inflammation that the spikes leave behind, to my parent's assignment of clearing the driveway of them as a suitable "chore" for me. Growing up in the high deserts/mountains of the southwest, I've never really lived anywhere (except 1 year in Berkeley) where there were none evident. Mary has been very diligent in pulling them and placing them on our outdoor firepit where they get incinerated with every bonfire. Tami was also very diligent about pulling them when she lived here but was prone to tossing them into piles to dry where they would not only replant themselves, but once dry the "ripe and now dry" fruits would fall off as one moved them to another location. I did talk her out of throwing them into the compost which never works out well, though I suspect my compost pile still has dozens of her early contributions waiting to be given the right conditions to germinate (in a garden bed). I've never been good at maintaining a consistent "hot compost" and the goatheads are big enough I think they might resist even that. I knew of the rumor of Goathead plants being a mild diuretic and therefore helpful for some blood pressure management and liver/kidney support... but didn't know of the other uses. I have tried chewing the mature-but-fresh seeds and didn't find them at all interesting... just fibrous. I understand the Zuni and Hopi both make ash of *many* natural plants/herbs to be cooked with (for the trace minerals?)... I once had a cookbook on that topic, but it has slipped away. For "emergency foods", I was impressed to learn that buffalo gourds (those foul-smelling things that grow way too well even in drought years) come back from a deep and expanding taproot every year, which and be dug, dried and pounded into a starchy flour if needed. I have one that has come back every year for the full 20 years I've been in this house... if it is not disturbed, it does not smell bad (just don't crush a leaf!). From what I understand, the root could easily provide me with 10 or more pounds of starchy flour "come the apocalypse" and there are *many* more in my area... this is just the one I've come to think of as a friend. I've always been a fan of prickly pear fruits and even the pads (nopalos) when pickled (nopalitos). I understand they are a good source of vitamin C, though maybe only whilst fresh? - Steve - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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That reminded me of this fantastic scene from a fantastic tv show:
https://youtu.be/EbkKaiqXmPU On 8/6/20 10:26 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > I have tried chewing the > mature-but-fresh seeds and didn't find them at all interesting... just > fibrous. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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> That reminded me of this fantastic scene from a fantastic tv show: > > https://youtu.be/EbkKaiqXmPU That is closer to what happened when I tried tasting the seeds of the "Moonflower" plants that grow sporadically here <grin>. This year, my in-courtyard shady garden sprouted dozens which (my general policy on all native volunteer plants is "every sperm is sacred") it turned out our chickens do like to nibble (not munch) on. When Mary saw this she removed them all, which I accepted, though best I could tell their ingestion was very limited and the leaves are much less "toxic" than the seeds. Last year, a particularly flourishing one on the side of the house showed up significantly denuded one day and upon inspection I discovered a small family of hornworms crawling their stems. I was fascinated since I only know the worms as "tomato worms". After the branches were entirely stripped, the worms disappeared... I never see them en-cocoon but understand/believe them to be the larval form of the sphynx-moth or hummingbird-moth which are happy pollinators to have around, even if they can be hell on my tomatoes. Surprisingly the Datura's branches sprouted fresh leaves and finished out the growing season with dainty little leaves. I saw another Datura with a hornworm a dozen yards away, but this time it failed to strip it. I haven't seen the phenomena at all this year though... > > > On 8/6/20 10:26 AM, Steve Smith wrote: >> I have tried chewing the >> mature-but-fresh seeds and didn't find them at all interesting... just >> fibrous. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Despite my credentials as a naturalist, I am not fond of big bugs. I don't know if you have ever seen the hornworm "butterfly" but they are about as large and noisy as black helicopters and near as mean looking.
If your horn worm is carrying little white packages on its back, leave it be, Those are the eggs of parasites, which may explain why your datura plant came through. N Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [hidden email] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:50 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Sunchoke rhizomes > That reminded me of this fantastic scene from a fantastic tv show: > > https://youtu.be/EbkKaiqXmPU That is closer to what happened when I tried tasting the seeds of the "Moonflower" plants that grow sporadically here <grin>. This year, my in-courtyard shady garden sprouted dozens which (my general policy on all native volunteer plants is "every sperm is sacred") it turned out our chickens do like to nibble (not munch) on. When Mary saw this she removed them all, which I accepted, though best I could tell their ingestion was very limited and the leaves are much less "toxic" than the seeds. Last year, a particularly flourishing one on the side of the house showed up significantly denuded one day and upon inspection I discovered a small family of hornworms crawling their stems. I was fascinated since I only know the worms as "tomato worms". After the branches were entirely stripped, the worms disappeared... I never see them en-cocoon but understand/believe them to be the larval form of the sphynx-moth or hummingbird-moth which are happy pollinators to have around, even if they can be hell on my tomatoes. Surprisingly the Datura's branches sprouted fresh leaves and finished out the growing season with dainty little leaves. I saw another Datura with a hornworm a dozen yards away, but this time it failed to strip it. I haven't seen the phenomena at all this year though... > > > On 8/6/20 10:26 AM, Steve Smith wrote: >> I have tried chewing the >> mature-but-fresh seeds and didn't find them at all interesting... >> just fibrous. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by thompnickson2
Nick,
> One little scrap I can grasp at here, and perhaps make a contribution. > There is a subtle point, perhaps a weakness in Peirce, to which the term > "believable" points. Note the mode. "believable--that which is readily > believed." But Peirce is pointing not to that but to "that which SHALL be > believed" or "that which is fated to be believed" in the very long run. > Not "credibles" but "credibilenda" . Note that the term 'believable' for me is in reference to the idea of a universal grammar of belief (UGB) and corresponds to what giving enough time one *will* believe. This idea is a riff on Chomsky's notion of language competence, where the universal grammar is *there* and through *performance* one becomes *competent* wrt their universal grammar[Æ]. That said, I assert that there is a kind of identification between my model and the Peircean model. I assert that for an individual given enough time to discover their beliefs, that which is *believable* is that which is fated to be believed. Now here is where Carter's paper comes in. In the paper, the author defines the notion of apt-belief as a belief that is discovered to be accurate because competent. I posit that scientific beliefs could be in a class of this type. Further, we note that the collection of one's possible apt-beliefs is a sub-collection of their total possible beliefs, UGB. In this way, the UGB can be thought of as a classifying object for belief. The version of Peirce's assertion I am working with here is the one that you sometimes claim, namely, *that which in the long-run we will _all_ come to agree upon*. This stronger Peircean assertion gives rise to a sub-collection as well, the collection of those apt-beliefs that we collectively find to be necessary. That is, granted a Kripke-like semantics, a belief is Peircean-true iff every person will come to believe it in the long-run. Dually[⇆], we can consider all of those apt-beliefs that each of us comes to discover but is not part of the belief-commons. That at least one of us finds the belief apt means, again via Kripke, that these beliefs are to be considered possible apt-beliefs wrt the whole of us. These beliefs are interesting to me exactly because we can profit from them as knowledge while they _can never_ be Peircean-true. Again, the reason they cannot, like the grounding for universal grammar, would follow from a historical accident of biology. I hope to have not muddied my own waters too much here, and I hope that what I am writing now is still mostly consistent with what I wrote before. [Æ] I am speaking loosely here. For one thing, language competence in Chomsky's model refers to one's *knowledge* of their universal grammar and not just to what one performs (i think?). For the sake of simplicity, I am blending these ideas. [⇆] The alethic operators come in monad-comonad adjoint pairs and so are linked by a duality. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by thompnickson2
Nick,
Running my Haskell model produces an output to the screen that one can view as doing the thing we expect, but I doubt it will tell you anything you didn't already know. It could have been written in many different ways, but I chose to separate out the details of the implementation so that they followed from the theory I laid out in the post. To the extent that I get a vote on how others appreciate something, the thing I found meaningful about this exercise is the development of the algorithms from reasoning about the relations between the categories I outlined. The code itself meant as a proof-of-concept. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by thompnickson2
> Despite my credentials as a naturalist, I am not fond of big bugs. I don't know if you have ever seen the hornworm "butterfly" but they are about as large and noisy as black helicopters and near as mean looking. I love those moths... not the hornworms (esp. on my Tomatoes) so much... as I know them as "Sphynx" or "Hummingbird" moths... one of the few moths that seem to venture out during the daytime. Unlike millers, they don't ever engage me as a human (intentionally or clumsily) and unlike other large, hovering insects (wasps) they are definitely not aggressive. I don't know the difference between a moth and a butterfly other than butterflies seem always to be colorful and daytime vs nighttime grazers. I suppose I could look that up... > If your horn worm is carrying little white packages on its back, leave it be, Those are the eggs of parasites, which may explain why your datura plant came through. Actually I think they were done with their voracious work and moved on to *other*? plants or on to their pupae stage??? My tomatoes always have *some* hornworms, and I've quit treating them as a scourge, and merely make a modest effort to keep them from stripping my tomatoes bare... since I'm usually reluctant to "prune" my tomatoes (reputed to help invigorate growth and flowering and therefore fruiting), I use the hornworms as an excuse, cutting away the branch they are on and letting them finish as much of it in the compost pile as they like. They don't seem to travel back to the other tomatoes, though I can't say *where* they go. I've pulled a LOT of hornworms off of my tomatoes and never seen the parasites you refer to. I'm a big fan of ecosystems.... even if they are somewhat managed/artificial, so I hope to "train" my chickens to pluck hornworms this year when they begin to appear. Right now they don't have access to the main garden as they are pretty destructive, but if they take a liking to hornworms, I suspect I can offer them access to my tomatoes in the early morning and they will prefer the worms to the leaves (which they *do* seem to eat, but not eagerly). I suppose I could use Google to discover what other plants hornworms are likely to live on. - Steve - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by jon zingale
Jon
If -- big if -- I (we) were to write a paper about intentionality, the law of short sighted striving, spandrels, unanticipated consequences that become consequential, etc. as a kind of universal principle, and perhaps have it submitted to JASSS or Behavior and Evolution, THEN it would be lovely to have a link to a visualization of the SoberSort to use as a rhetorical starting point. Your proper response should be, "You write the paper, I will write the visualization." I don't know how hard it would be to write the visualization, but I sure would like to have my greasy little hands on it as I start to write the paper. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [hidden email] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:57 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] OK. That's funny. Nick, Running my Haskell model produces an output to the screen that one can view as doing the thing we expect, but I doubt it will tell you anything you didn't already know. It could have been written in many different ways, but I choose to separate out the details of the implementation so that they followed from the theory I laid out in the post. To the extent that I get a vote on how others appreciate something, the thing I found meaningful about this exercise is the development of the algorithms from reasoning about the relations between the categories I outlined. The code itself meant as a proof-of-concept. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Ha, ok. It would take a couple of hours or the better part of
a weekend to make something aesthetically satisfying. I rather like how the compositeSort turned out :) -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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