Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
Locked
Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
 
|
Given our conversation a few months ago about the relationship between facebook/twitter and narcissism, I thought this might be interesting to some: http://news.discovery.com/human/narcissism-epidemic-college-students.html I love the quote: "I'm extremely confident," Twenge told Discovery News of her findings. "I think these analyses end the debate completely. It's clear narcissism is rising." -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
So, the suggestion is that If you have a Facebook account, you got it because you are a narcissist. Sounds a bit ... simplistic to me.
Not, mind you, that I don't find the American population at large (average IQ in the US == 98, remember) to be stupid beyond excuse. Sure, narcissism is probably rising, but so is illiteracy, bigotry, stupidity, and self-proclaiming punditry. Is Facebook to blame for those as well?
Or, how about Obama Derangement Syndrome. Who gets to take credit for that one? --Doug
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 10-03-23 03:08 PM:
> So, the suggestion is that If you have a Facebook account, you got it > because you are a narcissist. Sounds a bit ... simplistic to me. Oh no, that suggestion wouldn't come from me! [grin] I defended facebook users from Nick's accusation of narcissism, which he then admitted might have been over the top, if I recall correctly. But I do think there's something interesting, here. Our "information society" does one thing very well. It allows us to more completely ignore opinions we don't want to hear. If I don't like what's printed in the New York Times, I can read the Houston Chronicle. If I don't like what's on the NBC nightly news, I can listen to NPR. If I don't have any local victims for the nonsense I want to spout about "complexity", I can join a mailing list based in Santa Fe and annoy them. If I want to spout racist opinions and I get shouted down at the local pub, I can go home and log into an Aryan Nation website to hang out with my clique. I think this might be related to a hypothetical increase in narcissism. I could speculate that an increased narcissism is just one symptom in a hundred of them caused by multidimensional hyper-connectivity. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
This is more or less aimed at Glen Ropella,
This narcissism issue intrigues me> I considered a network of agents that are inter-connected to each other with some type of two way conduits. In one type they gain and the other they must give. I imagined that each agent could corrupt the demand conduit from another agent. In effect creating a bubble entity between itself and the feeder. The bubble would be maintained as long as the incoming resources were in excess. Now I considered that when the density of agents became excessive that the individual could no longer afford to maintain so many connections. The agents would disconnect the bubble (Superficial) and begin disconnecting outflow of resources while trying to suck up as much as possible. I speculated that a large group would disintegrate from within as individual agents began voluntarily disconnecting from the network while maintaining the appearance of connectivity. Hence the rise in superficiality in large societies. So the appearance of cooperation was more important than actual cooperation. Now narcissism may give the owner a belief that it is entitled to more resources or it may simply be a ruse to have others get close enough to feed upon. Kind of a orchid /fly baiting arrangement. Narcissists return very little to their communities that is why they seem so despised historically. But a simple agent capable of managing a distinctive input and output stream independently could be used as a concept. If we included a flawed value system it would be interesting. For instance the 55 year old divorcee with a boob job appearing as a candidate sexual partner. Or the 70 year old balding newsman with sparkling white teeth. So every agent desires sex but each has its peculiar judgment methods. By the way Glen I agree with your historical perspective somewhat but have modified it in my mind to account for forgetfulness. It seems that only events with very strong negative emotional context are remembered by most. Even if those events are very rare they outweigh by many factors the positive rewards of the past. So History and negative emotion are linked. But actual rewards are dismissed or devalued. In fact real memories are regularly replaced by fictional negative images. The human brain seems to care little about veracity in such matters. I found Net Logo and am little disappointed by the site but not discouraged. Little by little we gain ground. Perhaps a survey of Baby Boomers is also warranted. Narcissism may be on the upswing in all age classes. Narcissism may be an observer defined attribute rather than an actual behavior. As a teenager I saw girls crowd around mirrors whenever available. With the development of float glass, mirrors became very cheap and some people covered their ceilings even Vans with them. I recall Motels advertising mirrored ceilings for the sex trade along the Lakeshore in Toronto, it has all vanished now due to urban sprawl. So perhaps the proliferation of cheap mirrors unleashed narcissism? Make up, stockings and underwear used to be major targets of shoplifting when I was a young department store worker but I have no idea what interests young people today perhaps iPhones? The scoundrels I associated with focused on the early digital calculators and consumer electronics. Higher yields! My wife used to spend much more time in front of a mirror before we were married, now that we are separated perhaps she has resumed the narcissistic pattern? I avoid mirrors generally. Glen don't jump to conclusions so quickly. Dr.Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology) 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA R2J 3R2 (204) 2548321 Phone/Fax [hidden email] -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen e. p. ropella Sent: March 23, 2010 7:39 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 10-03-23 03:08 PM: > So, the suggestion is that If you have a Facebook account, you got it > because you are a narcissist. Sounds a bit ... simplistic to me. Oh no, that suggestion wouldn't come from me! [grin] I defended facebook users from Nick's accusation of narcissism, which he then admitted might have been over the top, if I recall correctly. But I do think there's something interesting, here. Our "information society" does one thing very well. It allows us to more completely ignore opinions we don't want to hear. If I don't like what's printed in the New York Times, I can read the Houston Chronicle. If I don't like what's on the NBC nightly news, I can listen to NPR. If I don't have any local victims for the nonsense I want to spout about "complexity", I can join a mailing list based in Santa Fe and annoy them. If I want to spout racist opinions and I get shouted down at the local pub, I can go home and log into an Aryan Nation website to hang out with my clique. I think this might be related to a hypothetical increase in narcissism. I could speculate that an increased narcissism is just one symptom in a hundred of them caused by multidimensional hyper-connectivity. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
In reply to this post by glen e. p. ropella-2
"Nick's accusations of narcissim"
Was that me? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([hidden email]) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > [Original Message] > From: glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> > Date: 3/23/2010 6:39:47 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students > > Thus spake Douglas Roberts circa 10-03-23 03:08 PM: > > So, the suggestion is that If you have a Facebook account, you got it > > because you are a narcissist. Sounds a bit ... simplistic to me. > > Oh no, that suggestion wouldn't come from me! [grin] I defended > facebook users from Nick's accusation of narcissism, which he then > admitted might have been over the top, if I recall correctly. > > But I do think there's something interesting, here. Our "information > society" does one thing very well. It allows us to more completely > ignore opinions we don't want to hear. If I don't like what's printed > in the New York Times, I can read the Houston Chronicle. If I don't > like what's on the NBC nightly news, I can listen to NPR. If I don't > have any local victims for the nonsense I want to spout about > "complexity", I can join a mailing list based in Santa Fe and annoy > them. If I want to spout racist opinions and I get shouted down at the > local pub, I can go home and log into an Aryan Nation website to hang > out with my clique. > > I think this might be related to a hypothetical increase in narcissism. > > I could speculate that an increased narcissism is just one symptom in a > hundred of them caused by multidimensional hyper-connectivity. > > -- > glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
A thread on narcissism in FRIAM? Let me just go check the definition of irony...
-- R
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote: "Nick's accusations of narcissim" ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
<snicker>
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Robert Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote: A thread on narcissism in FRIAM? Let me just go check the definition of irony... -- Doug Roberts [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
In reply to this post by Vladimyr Burachynsky
In that first article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm They emphasize the entitlement aspect of narcissism. In the DSM-IV, entitlement is only a minor diagnostic element, far superseded by grandiosity, fantasies of success, specialness, lack of empathy, etc. Below are the 6 questions from "The Mirror Effect" intended to estimate a person's NPI: 5. A. The thought of ruling the world frightens the hell out of me. B. If I ruled the world it would be a better place. 14. A. I insist upon getting the respect that is due me. B. I usually get the respect that I deserve. 18. A. I just want to be reasonably happy. B. I want to amount to something in the eyes of the world. 24. A. I expect a great deal from other people. B. I like to do things for other people. 25. A. I will never be satisfied until I get all that I deserve. B. I take my satisfactions as they come. 27. A. I have a strong will to power. B. Power for its own sake doesn't interest me. What intrigues me are the dichotomies set up by those questions. Then, in a newer article from yesterday, they talk about the differences between a poll conducted before the health care bill was passed and after it was passed. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm "In the new USA TODAY survey and one taken a month ago, the biggest shift toward support of the bill was among low-income Americans, minorities and those under 40. That has created a yawning age divide: A solid majority of seniors oppose the bill; a solid majority of those younger than 40 favor it." So, clearly there's some correlation between age and a positive view of the bill. Based on the (perhaps false) dichotomies of the above questions, the question these two articles raise is whether the correlation is caused by self-interest, perhaps a growing sense of entitlement in younger people, or by altruism, perhaps a growing sense of the commons. I suppose I would tend to think we're looking at a duality. The sense of entitlement is, somehow, the same as the sense of the commons, the obligation to share a social burden. Again, this leads me to speculate that this increase in that particular narcissistic trait (entitlement/commons) might be correlated with hyper-connectivity. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
glen e. p. ropella wrote circa 03/24/2010 07:27 AM:
> Below are the 6 questions from "The Mirror Effect" intended to estimate > a person's NPI: Sorry those are the 6 questions related to entitlement, out of 40 total questions. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
In reply to this post by glen e. p. ropella-2
The problem with questions like the 40 on the NPI test is that the intelligent test-taker will immediately perceive the intended goal of the exam and be capable of influencing the results at will. Since most of the questions represent two extreme endpoints of a given social response, the appropriate answer in many cases is "NA", allowing the respondent to answer as his inclinations dictate. IMO, only a rather average or sub-average intellect would allow himself to get caught out by such a transparent guise.
Of course, we are talking about narcissists here. On FRIAM... --Doug
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:27 AM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
Douglas Roberts wrote circa 03/24/2010 07:42 AM:
> The problem with questions like the 40 on the NPI test > <http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-03-16-pinsky-quiz_N.htm> is > that the intelligent test-taker will immediately perceive the intended > goal of the exam and be capable of influencing the results at will. > Since most of the questions represent two extreme endpoints of a given > social response, the appropriate answer in many cases is "NA", allowing > the respondent to answer as his inclinations dictate. IMO, only a > rather average or sub-average intellect would allow himself to get > caught out by such a transparent guise. I'm not as convinced as you are. I tend to think that the people who answer questions like this, intelligent or not, tend to do their best to answer the question, regardless of how it's asked. Like any other test, some people don't consider their answers prior to answering them, others do. Of those that do (what you probably call "intelligent"), part of their consideration might be that the answers present a false dichotomy and they probably then attempt to pick the lesser of two wrong answers. What you're proposing is that these tests are perceived as some sort of "trap" and the person doing the answering takes it as their goal to avoid the trap. In some cases, that's probably true, like with political polls. But in self-help books, I suspect it's not the case. And I imagine there's a great deal of methodology in clinical psychology that helps avoid those perspectives in the subjects of the test. That's not to say I think the test accurately gauges attributes like entitlement. I just don't think everyone who answers these things thinks they are traps. Besides, isn't the whole POINT of these questionnaires to get the respondent to answer as his inclinations dictate? -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> "Nick's accusations of narcissim" > > Was that me? > It is *all about you* Nick <grin> (I couldn't resist... I think Doug has infected me with something... next thing I'll be punning uncontrollably). ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
Easy, big guy -- there are treatment options for that. Most of them involve beer...
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
Doug -
I tried a couple of fingers of Kentucky Bourbon last night and it just aggravated both conditions (Narcisissm and Punning). Easy, big guy -- there are treatment options for that. Most of them involve beer... ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
A couple more fingers and you might have started to look good enough to take yourself home!
;-}
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Doug Roberts [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
In reply to this post by glen e. p. ropella-2
One other thought occurred to me later this morning. It seems like there should be a connection between narcissism and an internal locus of control (LOC), as well. Those of us who blame ourselves for bad things that happen probably also take credit for good things that happen. Hence, if you happen to have been born with symmetric features so that others call you "pretty" _and_ you have an internal LOC, you might be at risk for narcissism. The same might be true for a connection between those with external LOCs and a strong understanding of the commons. If you happen to have been born into poverty _and_ you have an external LOC, you might feel a strong sense of altruism toward a composition of the efforts of many people. If that speculation held, then it would again be reasonable to associate high connectivity between humans as correlative with an understanding of the commons and external LOCs. And, if the commons and entitlement are dual, then the former could be mistaken for the latter. Hence, the increase in the commons and external loci could easily be mislabeled as an increase in narcissism. Thus spake glen e. p. ropella circa 10-03-24 07:27 AM: > I suppose I would tend to think we're looking at a duality. The sense > of entitlement is, somehow, the same as the sense of the commons, the > obligation to share a social burden. > > Again, this leads me to speculate that this increase in that particular > narcissistic trait (entitlement/commons) might be correlated with > hyper-connectivity. > -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Narcissism Epidemic Spreads Among College Students
|
|
Just to follow up, after which I'll shut up about this, I presented my speculation, mechanism, and hypothetical tests, yesterday at the Cascade Systems Society and didn't get laughed out of the room. [whew] It sparked a lot of controversy. In particular, there were 3 people who totally rejected the idea that entitlement is the dual of (a sense of) collectivism. And 2 people just kept hammering me on the fact that I have no data. [grin] Nobody seemed to pull out the "correlation is not causation" widget. Perhaps that's only useful once one has data. Perhaps the most interesting outcome was the argument it sparked over what we mean when we say words like "the commons", "collectivism", "cooperation", and "altruism". In any case, the moderator (Teresa) subsequently sent me the following links, which I thought were interesting and relevant: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/jan-june10/millenials_02-24.html http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1501/%20millennials-new-survey-generational-personality-upbeat-open-new-ideas-technology-bound -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
«
Return to Friam
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |