Friam

More distraction

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Merle Lefkoff-2

More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

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Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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thompnickson2

Re: More distraction

How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

Steve Smith

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

Gary Schiltz-4

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Ah, the illustrious portmanteau. We English speakers seem to really love making up new words. I wonder if this is mostly an English phenomenon? I've tried with Spanish a lot of times here in Ecuador, with little success. The only one I can think of that I've repeatedly tried to get to catch on is "desaymuerzo" for "brunch" (desayuno = breakfast, almuerzo = lunch).

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:16 PM Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

A vaguely remember there was term used back in the LANS days for letting management do stupid things, in the hopes it would lead to that end of that management?

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Steve Smith <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 1:46 PM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Oh no, Steve, I'm not at all that creative, but I sure as hell am very derivative!

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:46 PM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

Gary Schiltz-4

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Steve, with tongue only partially in cheek, I have to say I often sympathize with those views. The fact is, despite being somewhat of an intellectual (I hope) and technically savvy guy, I have little use for large cities and would be fine seeing them go away. I grew up on a farm, went away to college (Manhattan, Kansas, population 40K including students), lived for a time in the suburbs of Detroit (low population density, large space between houses), moved to Pecos, New Mexico to work in Santa Fe, and now live in the boonies in the cloud forest of Ecuador. Social distancing has been a way of life for me :-)

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:46 PM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4

Excellent, Gary. I will definitely pass this one on.

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:47 PM Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah, the illustrious portmanteau. We English speakers seem to really love making up new words. I wonder if this is mostly an English phenomenon? I've tried with Spanish a lot of times here in Ecuador, with little success. The only one I can think of that I've repeatedly tried to get to catch on is "desaymuerzo" for "brunch" (desayuno = breakfast, almuerzo = lunch).

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:16 PM Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

thompnickson2

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

MALTHUSIASM: Enthusiasm concerning bad things happening, in particular, bad things happening to populations.

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

Frank Wimberly-2

Re: More distraction

Aren't Germans the champions of this? They take a sentence and make a word of it? Remember fahrvergnugen? Enjoyment derived from driving?

Frank

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:04 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

MALTHUSIASM: Enthusiasm concerning bad things happening, in particular, bad things happening to populations.

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918

thompnickson2

Re: More distraction

Right.

In case it isn’t obvious, Malthusiasm is a combination of Malthus (the guy who said that all populations are doomed to increase the level where everybody is miserable) and enthusiasm. Green folks are often accused of Malthusiasm.

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 3:10 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

Aren't Germans the champions of this? They take a sentence and make a word of it? Remember fahrvergnugen? Enjoyment derived from driving?

Frank

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:04 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

MALTHUSIASM: Enthusiasm concerning bad things happening, in particular, bad things happening to populations.

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918

Steve Smith

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by thompnickson2

MALTHUSIASM: Enthusiasm concerning bad things happening, in particular, bad things happening to populations.

Enthusiasm concerning how bad things happen when populations get out of hand (qualitatively or quantitatively or both as are we IMO).

Is there perhaps something less cynical to be done with Maslow?

MASLOWPIAN: The U/Dys-topian experience when Maslow's hierarchy of needs is followed/ignored?

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam [hidden email] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4

I want to have the city with no people. And it was like that for a wonderful moment! The underlying principle being Familiarity Breeds Contempt. In the country, the contempt is still there, but it is worse because one is bored by the same cast of characters.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 1:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:46 PM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

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thompnickson2

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Maslopian is a keeper. Definitely. N

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 3:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

MALTHUSIASM: Enthusiasm concerning bad things happening, in particular, bad things happening to populations.

Enthusiasm concerning how bad things happen when populations get out of hand (qualitatively or quantitatively or both as are we IMO).

Is there perhaps something less cynical to be done with Maslow?

MASLOWPIAN: The U/Dys-topian experience when Maslow's hierarchy of needs is followed/ignored?

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam [hidden email] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

O.K. Not bad. Definition?

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:34 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
How about MALTHUSIASM?

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] More distraction

Has the list noticed the new perfect word for frustrated climatologists and epidemiologists: Cassandrafreude. This is like labradoodle, another "portmanteau" word. One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference." Any other suggested definitions? You go, Nick!

Steve Smith

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Mary and I (previous to this cooling down of busy-ness) used to have the tongue-in-cheek observation "why is it OTHER people are traffic?", making reference to how we all resent the *other* people going about *their* business impeding/detracting-from OUR business?

My Euro colleagues (Matt and Janire) are at mutual odds on the topic... he grew up in the suburbs of London and finds our rural lifestyle appealing while she grew up in a small village in Spain, entering the hustle and bustle by "sneaking off to college" against her parent's preference (facilitated by an aunt in Seville who boarded her for her undergraduate) and now MUCH preferring "cafe culture" if/when she can find it. They travel the world and enjoy hyperactive urban culture all over Europe, some North America and some Middle and far East. They live in Cardiff Wales which barely provides the city's best for them sometimes. But they've sequestered in their industrial workspace for the duration, getting huge amounts of overdue projects done while commissions lag entirely... They both indicate they wish they'd been here visiting us (where they often inhabit our primitive guest-quarters, a 16' yurt) when things locked down.

I truly enjoy time in various big cities, but only as a "good place to visit". The year I lived in Berkeley for a year, my dog made it clear to me what bothered me about "city life" the most. Every time there'd be a sound, we would both alert. In the country, everything you see or hear is your business, in the city virtually NONE of it is. Whether it is the homeless going through my recycle at the curb for returnables, or a siren or someone yelling (anger or revelry) one block over, it really was NONE of my business. That is a hard habit to shift.

- Steve

On 5/27/20 3:18 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I want to have the city with no people. And it was like that for a wonderful moment! The underlying principle being Familiarity Breeds Contempt. In the country, the contempt is still there, but it is worse because one is bored by the same cast of characters.

From: Friam [hidden email] on behalf of Gary Schiltz [hidden email]
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 1:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More distraction

Steve, with tongue only partially in cheek, I have to say I often sympathize with those views. The fact is, despite being somewhat of an intellectual (I hope) and technically savvy guy, I have little use for large cities and would be fine seeing them go away. I grew up on a farm, went away to college (Manhattan, Kansas, population 40K including students), lived for a time in the suburbs of Detroit (low population density, large space between houses), moved to Pecos, New Mexico to work in Santa Fe, and now live in the boonies in the cloud forest of Ecuador. Social distancing has been a way of life for me :-)

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:46 PM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle -

Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...

I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.

Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...

People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...

- Steve

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David Eric Smith

Re: More distraction

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

No, I think Merle has put her finger exactly on something for which I have been looking, in irritation, for years.

Cassandrafreude is another form of vanity.

On my farmer list, we have a couple of people who are constituted of it. I don’t think there is anything else left of their personalities any more, and they annoy the hell out of me. (Interestingly and not incidentally, they are not farmers; maybe part-time hobby-farming academics or other professionals, at best.) The essence of every email from them is to stand out wailing in the public square, passing judgment on everybody, disingenuously flogging themselves (only not really), and asserting “All is lost! And it is our own disgusting fault! And nothing could be better, because we are all awful evil sinners who deserve what will happen to us!” etc.

The reason they irritate me is that I know there are lots of others who receive the list but rarely post, who are busy out in the world, looking for something they can solve to help someone or something that can be protected, with their attention on what is good rather than on themselves.

The cassandrafreudes want to be the ones to set the frame for what reality is, and they make lots of noise so that attention can go to them and to how bad they claim to feel. It’s just parading the fact that they no longer want to make the hard effort to try to figure out what is good and to do some part of it, acknowledging the uncertainty of whether they can succeed, and understanding that to try to do what is right is still the best choice available. Those latter are the people who should be setting the reality. By making noise and constantly trying to put themselves in the way, the cassandrafreudes commit the second sin IMO of being disrespectful, driven by their own vanity, of what actually deserves respect.

Merle emphasized the vanity of standing in judgment on others, which is also there, but I think the difference between standing in judgment on others, and lugubrious public self-flogging, is small compared to the core that they share.

Not as graceful a term as something German might have lent itself to, but maybe thereby the need for it is more sharply acknowledged.

Eric

On May 28, 2020, at 5:46 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Merle -
Is this of your coinage? As a word monger (munger?) I do appreciate it's aptness for the moment.

Cassandrafreude.

One definition offered is "the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted but no one believed you when it could have made a difference."

However...
I think like many sharp things, it cuts both ways. I'm sure there are any number of Red Staters (with or with Red MAGA hats) saying emphatically "I TOLE YA!" about the complement of things that Blue Staters (with or without Bernie or Biden 2020 hats) are saying.
Remember, my sympathies are mostly with the Blue Caps, but...
People living in small, remote, rural towns where the social distancing is built in somewhat and where R0 is naturally lower (and subsequent rates of infection) than in say downtown NYC or Rome or Tehran or Delhi or Tokyo, may be saying "see I TOLE YA that citified living is dangerous" or the same people who might only take one airline flight in a year or decade or lifetime might say "see I TOLE YA that flitting all around the world is crazy business and would lead to no good!" or even more judgementally "see I TOLE YA excluding Furriners would keep us safe!" or "see I TOLE YA that office/retail/service work ain't righteous, you gotta get yer hands dirty!"

In any case, I enjoyed Cassandrafreude and will probably find it springing to mind for the duration...
- Steve

-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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