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Is the new president mentally ill?

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Jochen Fromm-5

Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Nick Thompson

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody bit. Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution. He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law. Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened. Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start. There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration. While these may prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively, it surely does address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think. But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere. But what if he’s not a rational man? What then?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

-Jochen

Alfredo Covaleda Vélez-2

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

The Permian extinction is a good reference point. During these extinction disappeared almost all the species in the oceans and almost three of four terrestrial vertebrate species, almost all the insects and many species of microorganisms. Maybe Trump will be a disaster, but I am sure that he will not do it better than Permian extinction. At least he needs to ensure to mantain some of his buildings standed up.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody bit. Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution. He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law. Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened. Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start. There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration. While these may prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively, it surely does address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think. But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere. But what if he’s not a rational man? What then?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Some of Obama's foreign policy adventures did great harm to this country.

One of the biggest problems with promoting impeachment is that Vice-President Pence is a much smarter, more dangerous potential leader.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody bit. Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution. He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law. Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened. Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start. There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration. While these may prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively, it surely does address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think. But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere. But what if he’s not a rational man? What then?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

Grant Holland

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Jochen, Nick,

I have the same concerns. Thx for speaking up.

Grant

On 1/11/17 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody bit. Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution. He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law. Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened. Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start. There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration. While these may prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively, it surely does address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think. But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere. But what if he’s not a rational man? What then?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Carter Charbonneau

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Nick Thompson

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

C. explanation è prediction ècontrol N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Nick Thompson

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Merle,

I would find the premises of your response comforting, if I shared them. But the premise of the Jochen’s original post is that he is REALLY crazy. As in delusional, impulsive, paranoid, given to angry rages, un-restrained by such considerations as nuclear annihilation. “What do I need with a country; I’ve got my bunker and my girls.”

In the context of the REALLY crazy, the “ordinary-crazy” might seem quite refreshing.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 8:04 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

Some of Obama's foreign policy adventures did great harm to this country.

One of the biggest problems with promoting impeachment is that Vice-President Pence is a much smarter, more dangerous potential leader.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody bit. Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution. He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law. Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened. Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start. There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration. While these may prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively, it surely does address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think. But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere. But what if he’s not a rational man? What then?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

Carter Charbonneau

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Are you actually going to make different predictions than you did before this occurred to you?

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

C. explanation è prediction ècontrol N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','friam-bounces@redfish.com');" target="_blank">friam-bounces@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','friam@redfish.com');" target="_blank">friam@...>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/
Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?
On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jofr@cas-group.net');" target="_blank">jofr@...> wrote:
I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Steve Smith

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Carter Charbonneau

Carter -

I found the article an excellent addition to this discussion.

Instead of continuing the fruitless "disease" argument, we should address these questions directly. Taking a determinist consequentialist position allows us to do so more effectively. We should blame and stigmatize people for conditions where blame and stigma are the most useful methods for curing or preventing the condition, and we should allow patients to seek treatment whenever it is available and effective.

Unfortunately It would appear that blame and stigma are not effective with our president elect who is a brand, who is an empire, who is an icon of narcissistic abuse of others. I would also appear that he would not accept, much less seek treatment. I believe this is what makes him "Teflon"... his complete denial (or unawareness) of there being a problem.   "The right way, the wrong way, the Trump way" prevails. Our new "Narcissist in Chief" is about to take his throne, and as long as he has many subjects to worship him, he will remain there.

While "the Donald" IS the imminent delivery mechanism of our (potentially devastating) undoing, it is his myriad supporters from many (expected and not) walks of life who might need treatment or stigmatization.   The "elites" and "bleeding heart liberals" would be the ones under equal scrutiny about now, had "the Hillary" squeeked into office he way the Donald did.

I believe we are a nation (world) at risk of collapsing under our own Neuroses. I offer the Buddhist concept that we all see the world as we choose to, roughly in one of the four categories: "World as Battleground; World as Trap; World as Lover; World as Self".   I have aligned myself modestly with the "elites and bleeding hearts" to the extent that they tend to choose the latter 2 over the former and avoid the "self righteous right" and "knee jerk conservatives" for *their propensity* to frame everything as Battleground and Trap. My support of Hillary and Obama broke down where they lapsed too far into Battleground/Trap.

I hope that the "Million Woman March" coming up carries more of the Lover/Self than the Battleground/Trap. Women (and many others) have good reason to see the Trump Ascendency as a Trap and a Call to Arms, but I believe confrontation alone only propagates the problem.

After a bad trauma, radical debridement or cauterization, even amputation are often called for. Ultimately it is the wound/surgery aftercare and systemic support that returns the patient to vital health.   The "make America Great Again" crowd do not nurture nor support, it just isn't in their kit. The nurturers of our culture need to remain ready to do what we do as the self-limiting (but possibly huge) damage comes to it's logical conclusion.

Carry On,
- Steve

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

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gepr

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

Awesome contribution, Steve! There's so much to both agree and argue with, I simply must indulge.

I think there's more substance to the "peaceful transition of power" rhetoric than we're all giving credit, here. Yes, each new President can destroy the world. And leaving the selection of people to wield such power up to such a Rube Goldberg machine like our money-is-speech constitutional republic semi-democracy is very scary. But none of this implies, in any way, that we should buy into the rampant over-diagnosis of every little behavioral trait as a disease. (Gee, I like my coffee black... I must be have black-coffee-liking syndrome.) People wonder why we have a health care crisis ... it's partly because our knowledge (both scientific and engineering (including medicine)) is like a fractal. It's intricate and you can follow any path for your entire life. And many paths are very weakly justified, if at all. (Fake news is nothing more than part of the same phenotype as pseudo-science and quackery.) We design and prescribe drugs for every little trait. We extract and re-package molecules to sell as "vitamins" and supplements. We scoff at chop grinders and establish our tribe with our burr grinders.

In the end, there are only 2 types of us: Type_1) those who have faith in things like the Singularity or God and Type_2) those of us who relish the bubbling cauldron of stew we live in. I pride myself on my ability to switch modes, much like I take pride in my willingness to defend (however incompetently) things like Post Modernism when all my friends start trashing it. >8^)

The reigning advice is: Don't freak out. Type_1's: find the things you can do to reify your Deity, given the current state, and do them. Type_2's: Scoop up a fresh ladle and enjoy, because you'll be dead soon.

And finally, having Trump as president will either _falsify_ or validate our recent pop culture trends (e.g. heaping meritless reward on things like Kardashians; isolating out fetishizing singular phenomena, while ignoring their context like we idolize singers and ignore the back-up band; distilling and extreme-dosing things like resveratrol, etc.). I welcome the opportunity to test my hypothesis that cultural phenomena like Big Brother, Survivor, American Idol, Shark Tank, and The Apprentice are vapid wastes of time and energy. If Trump is successful (even if _only_ because he's constrained by the deep state), my hypothesis will be weakened (dramatically). But if he fails in a serious way (impeached, nukes the world, etc.), then my hypothesis will have more justification than it currently has.

On 01/11/2017 08:34 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Unfortunately It would appear that blame and stigma are not effective with our president elect who is a brand, who is an empire, who is an icon of narcissistic abuse of others. I would also appear that he would not accept, much less seek treatment. I believe this is what makes him "Teflon"... his complete denial (or unawareness) of there being a problem. "The right way, the wrong way, the Trump way" prevails. Our new "Narcissist in Chief" is about to take his throne, and as long as he has many subjects to worship him, he will remain there.
>
> While "the Donald" IS the imminent delivery mechanism of our (potentially devastating) undoing, it is his myriad supporters from many (expected and not) walks of life who might need treatment or stigmatization. The "elites" and "bleeding heart liberals" would be the ones under equal scrutiny about now, had "the Hillary" squeeked into office he way the Donald did.
>
> I believe we are a nation (world) at risk of collapsing under our own Neuroses. I offer the Buddhist concept that we all see the world as we choose to, roughly in one of the four categories: "World as Battleground; World as Trap; World as Lover; World as Self". I have aligned myself modestly with the "elites and bleeding hearts" to the extent that they tend to choose the latter 2 over the former and avoid the "self righteous right" and "knee jerk conservatives" for *their propensity* to frame everything as Battleground and Trap. My support of Hillary and Obama broke down where they lapsed too far into Battleground/Trap.
>
> I hope that the "Million Woman March" coming up carries more of the Lover/Self than the Battleground/Trap. Women (and many others) have good reason to see the Trump Ascendency as a Trap and a Call to Arms, but I believe confrontation alone only propagates the problem.
>
> After a bad trauma, radical debridement or cauterization, even amputation are often called for. Ultimately it is the wound/surgery aftercare and systemic support that returns the patient to vital health. The "make America Great Again" crowd do not nurture nor support, it just isn't in their kit. The nurturers of our culture need to remain ready to do what we do as the self-limiting (but possibly huge) damage comes to it's logical conclusion.

--
☣ glen
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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Nick Thompson

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Carter Charbonneau

Hi, Carter,

Well, fair question. My basic premise here is that if one understands a bad situation, one can take steps to ameliorate it. My mood is to retreat into philosophy for the next 4 years. At my age, I don’t really expect to survive them, in any case, so that is a very comfortable place to go. But what ABOUT the grandchildren? So, what can I do? Well, one thing I can do is convince Merle that this isn’t an ordinary political situation. That mean and dumb (Pence) really would be better than smart and delusional (Trump).

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:30 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

Are you actually going to make different predictions than you did before this occurred to you?

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

C. explanation è prediction ècontrol N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','friam-bounces@redfish.com');" target="_blank">friam-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','friam@redfish.com');" target="_blank">friam@...>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/
Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?
On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jofr@cas-group.net');" target="_blank">jofr@...> wrote:
I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

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Eric Charles-2

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

This is, overall, a strange concern, because you need additional layers of analysis. Functional narcissists do well because they have particular strengths, and when those strengths are on the side of third parties, those third parties tend to do quite well. To the extent that we can get Trump's narcissism to effectively feed off of the success of the country (which he seems quite willing to do), things will probably go quite well. To the extent that he is able to look at Putin and say "Who care's what you think? I'm president of the U.S., which is doing great by the way, terrific, and you are at the top of a crumbled empire," I don't think there is any risk of reaching for the football. A nuclear bomb wouldn't be good for the stock market, wouldn't help real estate prices, wouldn't help convince Ford to move that factory to the U.S., where Trump could do a ribbon cutting in front of an adulating crowd.

People keep saying that he is quick to anger, holds grudges, goes on the attack to much, but, frankly, we are mostly talking about tweets here. Has he ever bought a company just to fire someone? Is there an implication he has ever had people killed who were suing him (something well within his financial means)? Has he started a company to bankrupt someone else in the same niche who pissed him off? Are we really afraid he will go from tweet to nuclear launch with no escalation in between? What past history of escalation do we have to suggest that is a thing to worry about? And, in the mean time, might we not get some countries to the bargaining table based on the perception that Trump won't rule nuclear launch out, who might not be dealing with us otherwise?

If we are lucky, we have an effective narcissist on our side. If we are unlucky we have a reasonably competent businessman, in way over his head. Either way, I'm not worried he'll launch a nuke in week 2.

-----------
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician

U.S. Marine Corps

[hidden email]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Grant Holland

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Steve,

Thanks for your very well-considered response! Very insightful.

Grant

On 1/11/17 9:34 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:

Carter -

I found the article an excellent addition to this discussion.

Instead of continuing the fruitless "disease" argument, we should address these questions directly. Taking a determinist consequentialist position allows us to do so more effectively. We should blame and stigmatize people for conditions where blame and stigma are the most useful methods for curing or preventing the condition, and we should allow patients to seek treatment whenever it is available and effective.

Unfortunately It would appear that blame and stigma are not effective with our president elect who is a brand, who is an empire, who is an icon of narcissistic abuse of others. I would also appear that he would not accept, much less seek treatment. I believe this is what makes him "Teflon"... his complete denial (or unawareness) of there being a problem.   "The right way, the wrong way, the Trump way" prevails. Our new "Narcissist in Chief" is about to take his throne, and as long as he has many subjects to worship him, he will remain there.

While "the Donald" IS the imminent delivery mechanism of our (potentially devastating) undoing, it is his myriad supporters from many (expected and not) walks of life who might need treatment or stigmatization.   The "elites" and "bleeding heart liberals" would be the ones under equal scrutiny about now, had "the Hillary" squeeked into office he way the Donald did.

I believe we are a nation (world) at risk of collapsing under our own Neuroses. I offer the Buddhist concept that we all see the world as we choose to, roughly in one of the four categories: "World as Battleground; World as Trap; World as Lover; World as Self".   I have aligned myself modestly with the "elites and bleeding hearts" to the extent that they tend to choose the latter 2 over the former and avoid the "self righteous right" and "knee jerk conservatives" for *their propensity* to frame everything as Battleground and Trap. My support of Hillary and Obama broke down where they lapsed too far into Battleground/Trap.

I hope that the "Million Woman March" coming up carries more of the Lover/Self than the Battleground/Trap. Women (and many others) have good reason to see the Trump Ascendency as a Trap and a Call to Arms, but I believe confrontation alone only propagates the problem.

After a bad trauma, radical debridement or cauterization, even amputation are often called for. Ultimately it is the wound/surgery aftercare and systemic support that returns the patient to vital health.   The "make America Great Again" crowd do not nurture nor support, it just isn't in their kit. The nurturers of our culture need to remain ready to do what we do as the self-limiting (but possibly huge) damage comes to it's logical conclusion.

Carry On,
- Steve
http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

What's the point of diagnosing him? Protest. Resistance. Revelation. Isn't it alarming enough that the country is sliding into an authoritarian state? It is even worse if the president is mentally ill. I have never participated in a demonstration, but if this would happen here, I would demonstrate every day I could afford. In a country with thousands of nuclear weapons an evil president can do much more harm than a good president can do good. He can ruin the whole world and tumble into the abyss, dragging the whole world with him.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Carter Charbonneau <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/11/17 17:10 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Eric Charles-2

A better example might be something like the ACA. The ACA required Obama to make compromises, expend political capital, and play a longer game all while taking constant abuse for it. Or deciding how to balance national and global interests in places like Iraq, Syria, or Afghanistan. Tasks that are analytical and calculated and in the interest of the many aren’t always popular decisions at first.

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 2:09 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

-----------
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician

U.S. Marine Corps

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Eric I believe you are wrong if you believe you can have a narcissistic person on your site. A narcissist cares only for himself. The policy of Trump boils down to "I'm great and you're not unless you are like me, myself and I, you loser". There is no way how he can make the country great again. As Paul Krugman said America will turn into some form of authoritarianism, into a Trumpistan nightmare at best.

Mr. Trump does not only have a brand, he *is* a brand, a brand that says "I'm great". If you stay in this Trump hotel you are great. If you play on this Trump golf course you are great, too. But it is just a facade. It is based on lies, and there is nothing behind the shiny facade except emptiness. Therefore he seems to hit back immediately if someone damages his image and his brand, because he ceases to exist if his image is destroyed. He and his brand have become undistinguishable.

Marketing is no way to make America great again, Google has already an OS for ads, and the American corporations excel in marketing, especially the fast food chains. What will he do, build a Trump hotel in every city, a Trump golf course in every national park? This would be a total Trumpistan nightmare. Better than the nuclear apocalypse, but who would want such a future...

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Eric Charles <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/11/17 22:08 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

-----------
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician

U.S. Marine Corps

[hidden email]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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gepr

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

But the question is what actions are guided by remote diagnosis? I admit that I hope high visibility shaming like that from Streep, when added to the rest of the stress he will be / has been under, will make him go away. But it's not likely for the same reasons Steve cites that blame and stigma won't really work on him.

I suppose if we could really confirm that he's a particular type of narcissist, then we could build models of what he may or may not do and choose actions based on their expected efficacy. But because, almost by definition, everyone who willingly runs for President is a narcissist of some sort or other and to differing extent, that diagnosis isn't helpful.

Listening to the confirmation hearings is more helpful, I think. Take note of all the (many) issues where Trump and his appointees express diametrically opposite positions. Focus on those fissures. At best, his administration will shatter. At worst, the more distance you can put between the incompetent Cheeto and the competent people surrounding him, the more likely we'll end up with a Bush2 or a late-stage-Reagan ... maybe not good, but not catastrophic.

On 01/11/2017 03:34 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Eric I believe you are wrong if you believe you can have a narcissistic person on your site. A narcissist cares only for himself. The policy of Trump boils down to "I'm great and you're not unless you are like me, myself and I, you loser". There is no way how he can make the country great again. As Paul Krugman said America will turn into some form of authoritarianism, into a Trumpistan nightmare at best.
> Mr. Trump does not only have a brand, he *is* a brand, a brand that says "I'm great". If you stay in this Trump hotel you are great. If you play on this Trump golf course you are great, too. But it is just a facade. It is based on lies, and there is nothing behind the shiny facade except emptiness. Therefore he seems to hit back immediately if someone damages his image and his brand, because he ceases to exist if his image is destroyed. He and his brand have become undistinguishable.
> Marketing is no way to make America great again, Google has already an OS for ads, and the American corporations excel in marketing, especially the fast food chains. What will he do, build a Trump hotel in every city, a Trump golf course in every national park? This would be a total Trumpistan nightmare. Better than the nuclear apocalypse, but who would want such a future...

--
☣ glen

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Frank Wimberly-2

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

What I am about to say may be controversial here. I used to work in the Psychiatry Department at the University of Pittsburgh Medical School and I spent a number of years collaborating with psychiatrists and psychoanalysts.

Everyone is narcissistic to some degree and that is healthy. However, there are malignant forms of narcissism including Narcissistic Personality Disorder. People with that serious diagnosis are, as a rule, incapable of caring about other people. They feel an emptiness or loneliness that cannot be relieved and they are usually untreatable. The closest they can come to caring is about their own children whom they perceive as appendages of themselves. They feel that a spouse is an acquired possession, like a mansion or a Rolls-Royce. This gives them little gratification however and they frequently marry several times.

I am not formally trained in this topic and I am not offering an (amateur) diagnosis of any particular person.

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Jan 11, 2017 6:07 PM, "glen ☣" <[hidden email]> wrote:

But the question is what actions are guided by remote diagnosis? I admit that I hope high visibility shaming like that from Streep, when added to the rest of the stress he will be / has been under, will make him go away. But it's not likely for the same reasons Steve cites that blame and stigma won't really work on him.

I suppose if we could really confirm that he's a particular type of narcissist, then we could build models of what he may or may not do and choose actions based on their expected efficacy. But because, almost by definition, everyone who willingly runs for President is a narcissist of some sort or other and to differing extent, that diagnosis isn't helpful.

Listening to the confirmation hearings is more helpful, I think. Take note of all the (many) issues where Trump and his appointees express diametrically opposite positions. Focus on those fissures. At best, his administration will shatter. At worst, the more distance you can put between the incompetent Cheeto and the competent people surrounding him, the more likely we'll end up with a Bush2 or a late-stage-Reagan ... maybe not good, but not catastrophic.

On 01/11/2017 03:34 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Eric I believe you are wrong if you believe you can have a narcissistic person on your site. A narcissist cares only for himself. The policy of Trump boils down to "I'm great and you're not unless you are like me, myself and I, you loser". There is no way how he can make the country great again. As Paul Krugman said America will turn into some form of authoritarianism, into a Trumpistan nightmare at best.
> Mr. Trump does not only have a brand, he *is* a brand, a brand that says "I'm great". If you stay in this Trump hotel you are great. If you play on this Trump golf course you are great, too. But it is just a facade. It is based on lies, and there is nothing behind the shiny facade except emptiness. Therefore he seems to hit back immediately if someone damages his image and his brand, because he ceases to exist if his image is destroyed. He and his brand have become undistinguishable.
> Marketing is no way to make America great again, Google has already an OS for ads, and the American corporations excel in marketing, especially the fast food chains. What will he do, build a Trump hotel in every city, a Trump golf course in every national park? This would be a total Trumpistan nightmare. Better than the nuclear apocalypse, but who would want such a future...

--
☣ glen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Is the new president mentally ill?

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Meryl Streep reminds me of Clemens August Graf von Galen, who was one of the few bishops that had the courage to criticize the Nazi regime. He was a bishop in my hometown Münster near the Dutch border. In his sermons he criticized that the Nazis were killing innocent disabled people. The program was named T4. The Nazis let him live because he was too popular among the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemens_August_Graf_von_Galen

Many other priests and bishops were imprisoned by the Gestapo (the secret state police) in concentration camps and died. In St. Hedwig's cathedral in Berlin many of those are mentioned on memorial plagues. While it may be futile to resist, those who have the courage to do it are not forgotten.

It can also help to document the things that are unfolding, the violations of human rights, the corruption, and the injustice. In Dresden there was a Jewish professor Victor Klemperer who covered the actions of the Nazi regime in his diaries and journals. He was an important witness of all the injustice that happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Klemperer

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: glen ☣ <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/12/17 02:07 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?