I just stumbled upon this Spanish quote from Cervantes: "El más tonto sabe más en su casa que el sabio en la ajena" which means "the most foolish person knows more in his home than the wise person knows in someone else's". In this sense interdisciplinary work as the SFI wants to do is hardly possible because we are always making fools of ourselves when we leave our home. For example if I start to talk about psychology as a physicist and computer scientist I must look like a fool to Nick and Eric since I have not studied it :-/ By the way thanks David for your invaluable feedback to my foolish interdisciplinary writings, I am still working on it. -J. -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
Jochen, Everybody’s a phool on phriam. That’s why I love us. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm I just stumbled upon this Spanish quote from Cervantes: "El más tonto sabe más en su casa que el sabio en la ajena" which means "the most foolish person knows more in his home than the wise person knows in someone else's". In this sense interdisciplinary work as the SFI wants to do is hardly possible because we are always making fools of ourselves when we leave our home. For example if I start to talk about psychology as a physicist and computer scientist I must look like a fool to Nick and Eric since I have not studied it :-/ By the way thanks David for your invaluable feedback to my foolish interdisciplinary writings, I am still working on it. -J. -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Jochen, Though likely not relevant, I wanted to share my favorite Cervantes quote: "A wise man should ever be cautious when writing books to let his humor and his wits run leaden-footed. For if he writes for silly maidens, then he writes for nincompoops and ninnies." Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
Those silly maidens! --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, May 27, 2020, 9:47 AM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Not relevant. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:47 AM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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I am not sure he wrote this :-/ My favorite Cervantes quote from Don Quixote is "There is no book so bad that it does not have something good in it". I remember reading it in Greece during a summer vacation. Don Quixote has everything, it is funny, wise and one of the first novels ever. When we discussed a list of best books here on FRIAM, someone immediately mentioned it (don't remember who). -J. -------- Original message -------- From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> Date: 5/27/20 17:47 (GMT+01:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Interdisciplinary work Jochen, Though likely not relevant, I wanted to share my favorite Cervantes quote: "A wise man should ever be cautious when writing books to let his humor and his wits run leaden-footed. For if he writes for silly maidens, then he writes for nincompoops and ninnies." Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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My favorite quote from Don Quixote is probably the most famous: Whether the stone hits the vase or the vase hits the stone it's bad for the vase. I have multiple copies in Spanish and English but I've only read parts. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, May 27, 2020, 11:19 AM Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Jochen, Merle, To be clear I was not attempting offense, and before we race to the bottom and get too butt-hurt, I would like to point out that the quote I offered was from the introduction to Don Quixote that I had in hand a number of years ago. When I read the quote, I immediately wrote it down and when I trawl the internet today, it doesn't seem to show up. I literally had to dig through the pages of one of my archived notebooks to find it. Upon reflection, the quote does seem relevant to me if I replace silly women with stuffy post-academics. The wisdom it seems is that thinking carefully is for yourself and that the audience is inevitably composed of nincompoops and ninnies. Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
Jon, you are forgiven. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:44 PM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Thank you, Merle. -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
By the way, Jon, when I talk about complex systems science, I refer to it as "transdisciplinary", as opposed to "interdisciplinary". On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:14 PM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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For those who have read Don Quixote, I would be interested to know what what would be your favorite English translation as well as your favorite modern Spanish version (as I understand it, a lot of the story was written in "Old Castilian"). On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:28 PM Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Merle, A brief internet survey suggests a difference between interdisciplinary and transdisciplinary research. The latter focuses on building new, something more than combinatorial exploration. Would you say more about your sense of transdisciplinary research? What do you feel is lacking within interdisciplinary models that can be satisfied by the other? Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Read it in the original Spanish, Castilian as it is. Would you read Shakespeare in modern vernacular English? Spanish has changed less than English. When I don't understand something in the King James version of the Bible I read the Spanish Bible to clarify. It's stuff like "Dijoselo" (old) instead of "Se lo dijo (modern)." My favorite English translation is by Samuel Putnam Modern Library). It has some of the archaic feel of the original.
"Knight of the Mournful Countenance" for "Caballero de la Triste Figura" for instance. Frank On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:24 PM Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Interdisciplinary research is satisfied with the diversity of thought that comes from a combinatorial search of different existing models. Transdisciplinary research explores the possibility of breakthrough to an entirely new mental operating system waiting to be discovered in the adjacent possible. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:33 PM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Merle, Cool. I am hearing that there is a kind of Jachin-Boaz duality, where transdisciplinary research establishes (Jachin) and interdisciplinary research fortifies (Boaz). What is it we are doing when we act in a transdisciplinary way? Are there exercises or practices to promote growth into an adjacent possible (like improv theater warmups)? Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Interesting that while I have not read the Castilian original nor
more than snippets of more contemporary Spanish translations, the
English translation I read (in HS?) felt like it might have
imposed/projected-onto this work a very Anglophonic
sensibility/style in it's translation. I experienced a
(translated) student production of DQ in college which gave me a
stronger experience than the translated reading, but 40 years
later, my young (30something) Spanish (Basque) colleague from
Wales speaks of the DQ tale as if Sancho Panza is the true
hero/protaganist, which was what I suspected in my own first
reading. It read as a modern "buddy flick" rolls in many ways
and recent revisits to the tale reminded me of the
'Quixotification" of Panza and the "Panzafication" of Quixote as
one of the outcomes... a blending of the earthy and practical with
the educated and idealistic. Also likely a reflection of the
life and times of it's penning while still seeming to have plenty
of relevance today. On 5/27/20 2:37 PM, Frank Wimberly
wrote:
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Steve, you write: my young (30something) Spanish (Basque) colleague from Wales speaks of the DQ tale as if Sancho Panza is the true hero/protaganist, which was what I suspected in my own first reading. It is great that you mention this. I have pretty much felt the same way about Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. In some ways, I feel that Don Quixote was the spiritual predecessor of Voltaire's Candide. In both cases, I feel a strong sense of contempt emanating from the authors and focused upon the titular characters. In the case of Cervantes, he is quite a bit more clever. Situating Sancho Panza as the protagonist, Cervantes himself does not seem to have much patience for idealistas, gives us a protagonist in a submissive power role. He watches after the Don and is charged with an impossibly compassionate task. The whole affair has a wit, sarcasm, and dare I say humor. Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
And irony. The Knight is the less competent one. And despite his cynicism Sancho is practical and effective. There is the scene in which Don Quixote is very "presumido" arrogantly proud to be in possession of the helmet of Mambrino, a very famous and valiant, knight. Sancho finally says but, your honor, don't you see it is a simple barber's basin? Don Quixote says, impatiently, but, Sancho, of course it looks like a barber's basin because then envious people won't realize what it is and won't try to steal it. Or words to that effect. Frank On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:30 PM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Improv, absolutely! I've already included this in the training manual I've been commissioned to write for group facilitators who want a new methodology to lead deep dialogue into the adjacent possible for climate survival. I'm also looking into how science fiction writers and choreographers approach their craft. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jon Zingale <[hidden email]> wrote:
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