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IS: wHEN IS COMPLEXITY A GOOD? WAS: Windows Resource Monitor

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

Ed wrote:

"Mesa is a viable alternative except that you are still stuck with the
standard that comes out of Kronos."

Mesa developers can add whatever extensions they want. What matters is what
becomes popular with open source application developers. Users of Mesa
could just decide like like OgreGL more than OpenGL and forget about the
standard. Not that they would, but they could. At the end of the day Mesa
developers just need to know how to tickle the hardware the right way.

Consider the Gallium drivers underlying the OpenCL stuff in Mesa are
patterned on Direct3D not OpenGL. So it's not like they are suddenly
confused if OpenGL semantics are abused or vague.

Marcus

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Russell Standish

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

In reply to this post by Edward Angel

On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 04:40:54PM -0700, Edward Angel wrote:
> In response to Russell: Cg was light years ahead of GLSL but GLSL overtook it and even though there are elements of Cg that are better than GLSL. GLSL is core to OpenGL and has evolved so it performs well. Cg is now pretty head. I would expect the same to happen with CUDA and OpenCL. What may be more relevant is WebGL and the soon to be released WebCL.

Of course things that are good in the proprietry R&D version will
eventually make it into the standard, in some form or other. Things
that aren't so good are left to wither on the vine.

As a user of technology, you need to make you choice dependent on
needs. For instance, two years ago, my needs were well in advance of
OpenCL, so I need to go with the proprietry solution, in the
understanding that that work will need to be torn up and possibly rewritten
using the standard library (if still needed). Of course, if you don't
need to be bleeding edge, then going with a standard approach is more
desirable for code longevity.

I hoping to go back and revisit the CUDA/OpenCL issue again later this
year, particularly now there's a new kid on the block in the form of
Intel's MIC, which can be coded using OpenMP, a standard I'm well
familiar with (and had its own story like the above, but in the
1990s).

Cheers

--

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Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics [hidden email]
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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Bruce Sherwood

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

In reply to this post by Russell Standish

In case this isn't a well-known tool, I'll mention that I've been pleased with Inno Setup (http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php) for building installers for Windows. I've used it for many years.

Bruce

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Russell Standish <[hidden email]> wrote:

On the plus side, getting the Mac installer to work correctly took
about half a day, compared with a full three days to get the
equivalent stuff to work with WiX on Windows (M$ installer scripts
were designed by a committee, I'm sure of it).

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Barry MacKichan

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

In reply to this post by glen ep ropella

Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of their CAD software.

--Barry

On Feb 8, 2013, at 2:19 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:

Instead, you keep (or
reconstruct) the _machine_ that was used for the original research.

glen ep ropella

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

Barry MacKichan wrote at 02/12/2013 09:55 AM:
> Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They
> were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of
> their CAD software.

I'm not sure why, but there's something seriously satisfying about
getting old stuff to work. I can't tell if it's merely the (apparent)
simplicity or familiarity with the old stuff, or whether it's a kind of
"found art". For me, it's a weird crossover between things like circuit
bending and steam punk. Even if it's merely running an old C64 game on
an emulator, there's something peaceful about old artifacts that still work.

--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com

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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

I, for one, am always happy when my old artifact works.

--Doug

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote:

Barry MacKichan wrote at 02/12/2013 09:55 AM:

> Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They
> were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of
> their CAD software.

I'm not sure why, but there's something seriously satisfying about
getting old stuff to work. I can't tell if it's merely the (apparent)
simplicity or familiarity with the old stuff, or whether it's a kind of
"found art". For me, it's a weird crossover between things like circuit
bending and steam punk. Even if it's merely running an old C64 game on
an emulator, there's something peaceful about old artifacts that still work.

--
glen e. p. ropella, <a href="tel:971-255-2847" value="+19712552847">971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com

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Doug Roberts
[hidden email]

http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

505-455-7333 - Office
505-672-8213 - Mobile

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

References to "hardware" omitted for obvious reasons.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:

I, for one, am always happy when my old artifact works.

--Doug

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote:

Barry MacKichan wrote at 02/12/2013 09:55 AM:

> Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They
> were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of
> their CAD software.

I'm not sure why, but there's something seriously satisfying about
getting old stuff to work. I can't tell if it's merely the (apparent)
simplicity or familiarity with the old stuff, or whether it's a kind of
"found art". For me, it's a weird crossover between things like circuit
bending and steam punk. Even if it's merely running an old C64 game on
an emulator, there's something peaceful about old artifacts that still work.

--
glen e. p. ropella, <a href="tel:971-255-2847" value="+19712552847" target="_blank">971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com

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--
Doug Roberts
[hidden email]
http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

<a href="tel:505-455-7333" value="+15054557333" target="_blank">505-455-7333 - Office
<a href="tel:505-672-8213" value="+15056728213" target="_blank">505-672-8213 - Mobile

Doug Roberts
[hidden email]

http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

505-455-7333 - Office
505-672-8213 - Mobile

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

In reply to this post by Barry MacKichan

Two years ago we did a year-long training for Boeing aeronautical engineers on how to deal with the complexity of getting the Dreamliner off the ground. ( Just a reminder that applied complexity is useful, and it isn't all about technology. ) Their failure to nurture the emergence of new communication structures along the supply chain caused them much frustration--they couldn't see the big picture.

Merle

On Feb 12, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Barry MacKichan wrote:

> Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of their CAD software.
>
> --Barry
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 2:19 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:
>
>> Instead, you keep (or
>> reconstruct) the _machine_ that was used for the original research.
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

Seems like Boeing could have benefited from a little battery testing training, as well.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Two years ago we did a year-long training for Boeing aeronautical engineers on how to deal with the complexity of getting the Dreamliner off the ground. ( Just a reminder that applied complexity is useful, and it isn't all about technology. ) Their failure to nurture the emergence of new communication structures along the supply chain caused them much frustration--they couldn't see the big picture.

Merle

On Feb 12, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Barry MacKichan wrote:

> Back in the '70s, I did some work for Boeing Computer Services. They were at that time going around picking up used IBM 7090s to run some of their CAD software.
>
> --Barry
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 2:19 PM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:
>
>> Instead, you keep (or
>> reconstruct) the _machine_ that was used for the original research.
>

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Doug Roberts
[hidden email]

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Ron Newman

Re: Two (and more) Cultures

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

Merle,

Could you expound on this a little more? What kind of new communication structures? Intrigued also by the non-technical aspects of applied complexity in this instance.

Ron

--
Ron Newman, Founder
MyIdeatree.com

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Two years ago we did a year-long training for Boeing aeronautical engineers on how to deal with the complexity of getting the Dreamliner off the ground. ( Just a reminder that applied complexity is useful, and it isn't all about technology. ) Their failure to nurture the emergence of new communication structures along the supply chain caused them much frustration--they couldn't see the big picture.

Merle

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