How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
 
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For US Citizens and Residents on this list, this might be of interest -
a super pac to beat all other super pacs! I pledged. Thanks Robert C ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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If you haven't neard about it, it's Larry Lessig's Mayday.us superpac. I pledged too. In fact, I have a pledge page. If you want to pledge there I'd be honored.
-- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105; CS Dept.: 323-343-6690 Google+: http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott,
CS Wiki and the courses I teach.
A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations."
How the Fed can fix the economy (2 pages): ssrn.com/abstract=1977688.
_____________________________________________ On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Robert J. Cordingley <[hidden email]> wrote: For US Citizens and Residents on this list, this might be of interest - a super pac to beat all other super pacs! I pledged. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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Administrator
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I pledged. Tweeted. Now it's down to hope! -- Owen On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Russ Abbott <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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Thanks guys for including the link at mayday.us! Dunno why it
didn't show in my original. BTW for others the deadline for this
crowd-funded campaign is July 4th! I like the quote from one of the
videos; I think it was something like: "95% of Americans believe
there's too much special interest money in government. 91% believe
we can't do anything about it: it's not true.";
Thanks Robert On 7/1/14 9:56 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
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Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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https://mayday.us/
So, just to be clear, with the money you give them, they will fund the campaigns of (any) candidates who promise to support campaign finance reform. Then once those politicians who promised that are elected, they will lobby those (and others) to pass such legislation (even if it means constitutional amendments)... perhaps even helping to write such legislation. Is that the gist? Am I missing anything? -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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It is a little ironic to suggest that one can fund elections and
legislation to end the funding of elections and legislation... Like the "war to end all wars" at the beginning of the 20th century, followed by yet another war roughly designed to do the same thing, followed by 50 years of cold war, ending in a series of "hot little wars". That is not to say that i don't like the idea of removing money from politics (if it is possible)... just the form of this is filled with irony. $2.5M seems like a healthy chunk of change, but I doubt it goes very far in this domain? > https://mayday.us/ > > So, just to be clear, with the money you give them, they will fund the > campaigns of (any) candidates who promise to support campaign finance > reform. Then once those politicians who promised that are elected, > they will lobby those (and others) to pass such legislation (even if > it means constitutional amendments)... perhaps even helping to write > such legislation. Is that the gist? Am I missing anything? > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
There is no "even if". Given the current state of the SCOTUS, the ONLY
way to reform campaign finance is to pass constitutional amendments overturning Citizens United, etc. SCOTUS cannot overrule the Constitution -- no matter how "active" the Roberts Court would like to be. Joe On 7/1/14, 3:12 PM, glen wrote: > https://mayday.us/ > > So, just to be clear, with the money you give them, they will fund the > campaigns of (any) candidates who promise to support campaign finance > reform. Then once those politicians who promised that are elected, > they will lobby those (and others) to pass such legislation (even if > it means constitutional amendments)... perhaps even helping to write > such legislation. Is that the gist? Am I missing anything? > -- "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
On 07/01/2014 02:19 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> It is a little ironic to suggest that one can fund elections and > legislation to end the funding of elections and legislation... > > Like the "war to end all wars" at the beginning of the 20th century, > followed by yet another war roughly designed to do the same thing, > followed by 50 years of cold war, ending in a series of "hot little wars". > > That is not to say that i don't like the idea of removing money from > politics (if it is possible)... just the form of this is filled with > irony. $2.5M seems like a healthy chunk of change, but I doubt it goes > very far in this domain? I don't mind the irony. In fact, the old saying "fight fire with fire" wouldn't exist if it _never_ worked. What I'm interested in, since this is a list presumably about _complexity_, is the (piecewise) linearity of the proposal. No comments are made about the unintended consequences of getting any of these people elected. Sure, I want to vote for candidates who support campaign finance reform... but would I want my donation to fund Sarah Palin's campaign if she promised to support it? ... No. I have the same problem with the claims that the libertarians can team up with the progressives on some issues. You can tell a lot about a person by looking at their friends. It seems to me the inherent problem is not the particular issues, nor the funding. The problem is the myopic focus... the "single issue"-ness of most current politics. And that involves everything from "if it bleeds it leads" to line item vetos to minimum standard sentences. It goes way way beyond campaign finance or even lobbying in general. It doesn't seem to me like "out linear the linear" works the same way "fight fire with fire" works. p.s. However I approve of almost everything Lessig supports... so, donating your money here is probably a good thing. But not because of this particular issue. Rather because the people behind it have a decent _cloud_ of vectors. Change the people and you change the nature of the organization. >> https://mayday.us/ -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella ?? burn my eyes ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Lessig acknowledges the irony of it all. As I noted, I created my own "Pledge Page." Perhaps someone would like to create a FRIAM pledge page where we can all contribute!
-- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105; CS Dept.: 323-343-6690 Google+: http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott,
CS Wiki and the courses I teach.
A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations."
How the Fed can fix the economy (2 pages): ssrn.com/abstract=1977688.
_____________________________________________ On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 2:42 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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In reply to this post by Joe Spinden
On 07/01/2014 02:32 PM, Joseph Spinden wrote:
> There is no "even if". Given the current state of the SCOTUS, the ONLY > way to reform campaign finance is to pass constitutional amendments > overturning Citizens United, etc. SCOTUS cannot overrule the > Constitution -- no matter how "active" the Roberts Court would like to be. I'm not convinced yet. Citizens United and the Hobby Lobby ruling seem to me to be about corporations. It seems to me there is plenty of room for legislation clarifying, say, the differences between a publicly traded and a privately held corporation. I hate the byzantine nature of our laws. But one thing it does is grant us some agility that we wouldn't have if we had a more simplified, self-consistent, system. He who has the best lawyers tends to win. And one thing mayday.us is doing, even if inadvertently, is hiring more lawyers. The lawyers are just tools. They'll do what we _pay_ them to do as long as we outpay our competition. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella There's a city called revival made of blocks of poison ivory ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
Glen -
> I don't mind the irony. In fact, the old saying "fight fire with > fire" wouldn't exist if it _never_ worked. I agree... I just couldn't leave it unstated. > What I'm interested in, since this is a list presumably about > _complexity_, I thought it was about coffee on friday mornings? > is the (piecewise) linearity of the proposal. No comments are made > about the unintended consequences of getting any of these people > elected. Sure, I want to vote for candidates who support campaign > finance reform... but would I want my donation to fund Sarah Palin's > campaign if she promised to support it? ... No Yes, the problem of "single issue" voting which I think is identical to "single-variable optimization" seems obvious to some of us, yet maybe not to the masses? > . I have the same problem with the claims that the libertarians can > team up with the progressives on some issues. You can tell a lot > about a person by looking at their friends. "Politics makes strange bedfellows". Does that qualify for "wouldn't exist if it never worked!" ? > It seems to me the inherent problem is not the particular issues, nor > the funding. The problem is the myopic focus... the "single > issue"-ness of most current politics. And that involves everything > from "if it bleeds it leads" to line item vetos to minimum standard > sentences. It goes way way beyond campaign finance or even lobbying > in general. > > It doesn't seem to me like "out linear the linear" works the same way > "fight fire with fire" works. Well said. > p.s. However I approve of almost everything Lessig supports... so, > donating your money here is probably a good thing. But not because of > this particular issue. Rather because the people behind it have a > decent _cloud_ of vectors. Change the people and you change the > nature of the organization. I respect that way of thinking. - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In comunist America Presidents Choose You! On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote: Glen - ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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I'm wondering if where the issue comes from is my choice always being Red or Blue. I can't help but wonder: If the US somehow were to change over to a parilimentarysk system would that help
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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I say that ask I have a history of voting indipendent-I don't want to squander my vote But I don't want have to choose coke or coke light, sometimes herbal tea would be better and sometimes not just any ol herbal tea, mint tea (for example) On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Whether that would help or not is questionable. See: http://www.fairvote.org/research-and-analysis/presidential-elections/congressional-and-presidential-primaries-open-closed-semi-closed-and-top-two/ http://www.unifiedprimary.org/faq#question_id_22 But, again, hyper-focus on how we vote is probably no better than hyper-focus on how campaigns are funded. If only there were some way we could compose multiple mechanisms into some magic machine and, oh I don't know, run it forward to see how it all works out, then compare that machine to data taken from the world and tweak the machine until it seems to work, then base our predictions off that machine. [sigh] Sounds like science fiction to me! On 07/01/2014 04:27 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > I say that ask I have a history of voting indipendent-I don't want to > squander my vote But I don't want have to choose coke or coke light, > sometimes herbal tea would be better and sometimes not just any ol > herbal tea, mint tea (for example) > > > > On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > I'm wondering if where the issue comes from is my choice always > being Red or Blue. I can't help but wonder: If the US somehow were > to change over to a parilimentarysk system would that help -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella And I know I ain't digging on your lies ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:36 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote: But, again, hyper-focus on how we vote is probably no better than hyper-focus on how campaigns are funded. If only there were some way we could compose multiple mechanisms into some magic machine and, oh I don't know, run it forward to see how it all works out, then compare that machine to data taken from the world and tweak the machine until it seems to work, then base our predictions off that machine. [sigh] Sounds like science fiction to me! Sound like history to me. Although there are a few things about our current situation that are unique enough to make it hard to draw comparisons. -Arlo James Barnes ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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I sure hope that besides all this talk, at least a few people are actually offering support. -- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105; CS Dept.: 323-343-6690 Google+: http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott,
CS Wiki and the courses I teach.
A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations."
How the Fed can fix the economy (2 pages): ssrn.com/abstract=1977688.
_____________________________________________ On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Arlo Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Arlo Barnes
Dare I say, as expected, offered an opportunity to actual do
something, many (the 91%?) keep explaining (debate back and forth)
why one should do nothing.
With all the talent and expertise on this list, surely someone could help Larry Lessig succeed with his campaign? It's complicated/complex. Who's up to it? Remember, this was inspired by Aaron Swartz. Robert C On 7/1/14 7:47 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:
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Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!
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Dare I say, as expected, offered an opportunity to actual do something, many (the 91%?) keep explaining (debate back and forth) why one should do nothing.I personally find that one can act *and* discuss the implications and consequences of their actions at the same time. With all the talent and expertise on this list, surely someone could help Larry Lessig succeed with his campaign? It's complicated/complex. Who's up to it? Remember, this was inspired by Aaron Swartz.I think that IS roughly what Glen was putting at least a few minutes of thought into... just *what* could be done to help from a simulation science point of view. While it may be important to support Lessig-like initiatives to undermine/minimize campaign funding abuses, it might also be important to look for ways to lessen the impact of high-profile campaigning. I personally avoid all political advertising (shot the Telly a long time ago and am careful what I listen to or read) and think that we'd be a *much* more enlightened citizenry if we eschewed *all* advertising, most especially political advertising. If it didn't work, they wouldn't use it. How do we stop it from working? I think the most important thing I can do for the democratic process is to engage in it with my full mind and soul. I should be more concerned with my own well-informed vote than gaming the gamers of the system. I hope Lessig *does* undermine the campaign funding nonsense and I'm even willing to help him do it (fund his campaign to undermine campaign funding) but I'm not willing to pretend it is anything more than "a good start". If 10% of Democrats send in $.05, he has his goal. If 1% send in $.50, ditto. If .1% send $5 viola! Or Buffet or any one of a lot of high profile "progressives" can twitch a little finger and the $5M will be there. This cant be as simple as raising a (measly?) $5M can it? Isn't it the *awareness* raised by 5M people committing a dollar and feeling invested in the outcome that matters? I appreciate that this was brought up on the list, but I think it is more important to discuss the implications of it than it is to raise an additional what, $500 or even $5000 for the cause? This isn't a political discussion list, but it *is* a complex systems discussion list, and I agree with Glen's point that this is probably not about simply outlinearing the linear... ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley
It would be nice if someone here could come up with something
concrete besides contributing. Rather than wait for that, I also
have created a pledge page
for anyone that would like to contribute to the Mayday Political Action Committee.
Joe On 7/1/14, 10:22 PM, Robert J.
Cordingley wrote:
Dare I say, as expected, offered an opportunity to actual do something, many (the 91%?) keep explaining (debate back and forth) why one should do nothing. -- "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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