How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific
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How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific
 
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Re: How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific
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When I was still at Carnegie Mellon, Glymour and I submitted a paper to Journal of Machine Learning Research. We mentioned that we had asked a very visible researcher for the data he had used to test a method similar to ours and that he refused to share it with us. The editors rejected our paper because of our "disrespect" for the famous researcher and that we would have to delete it for our paper to be published. Glymour refused. He has about 500 papers and 10 books but I could have used the publication. We got the paper published in a handbook on computational modeling of gene networks. Oh well. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Dec 3, 2020, 10:46 AM Tom Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote: - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Tom Johnson
> “Nature might as well post a sign that says "LMICs scientists not welcome here", said Catherine Kyobutungi, Executive Director at the African Population and Health Research Center. “Nature is out of touch with reality. It is a daily struggle for institutions like ours to financially support our researchers to pay open access fees. A few funders pay these fees but only for papers coming out of projects they have funded. I don't know in which world Nature thinks it's okay to charge fees equal to or more than the small grants many LMICs researchers can access,” she added.
It's not well-summed-up by "prestige". This topic came up in FriAM, recently, wherein I objected to purchasing a proprietary tool to replicate the research of another group, preferring a tool that *is* more available to LMIC researchers like R. It was amazing to me that I had to make this argument at all, much less the privileged counter-arguments being made, e.g. that ~$1000/yr for that software wasn't significant compared to what I was being paid. I'd much rather donate $1000/yr to the R Foundation than propagate the pay-to-play game being offered. There's bound to be a similar model for publications. On 12/3/20 9:42 AM, Tom Johnson wrote: > https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusive-and-exclusionary/ <https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusive-and-exclusionary/> -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific
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There's another side to this, which is that people who sell things often try as hard as they can to make those things seem essential and otherwise out-of-reach. To lead potential customers into thinking there is energy barrier where there really isn't. I find I sometimes buy software or a (text)book when I just want to know if there is any there, there. If I really need it, invariably I end up using open source software. For example, I can't imagine going back to ArcGIS as now there are QGIS an various geotools for R (the latter two which are free). This luxury of being able to a bit of lookahead by, well, wasting some money, is what LMIC scientists can't do. Likewise one could carefully engineer some code to do run quickly, or just slam down some slow scripts on a cluster and waste some energy and get the same answer. It's not so clear to me that the academic publishing industry really adds a whole lot of value. Heck, it's not so clear to me that recording ideas forever is really all that useful either, but that's another story.
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:34 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific > “Nature might as well post a sign that says "LMICs scientists not welcome here", said Catherine Kyobutungi, Executive Director at the African Population and Health Research Center. “Nature is out of touch with reality. It is a daily struggle for institutions like ours to financially support our researchers to pay open access fees. A few funders pay these fees but only for papers coming out of projects they have funded. I don't know in which world Nature thinks it's okay to charge fees equal to or more than the small grants many LMICs researchers can access,” she added. It's not well-summed-up by "prestige". This topic came up in FriAM, recently, wherein I objected to purchasing a proprietary tool to replicate the research of another group, preferring a tool that *is* more available to LMIC researchers like R. It was amazing to me that I had to make this argument at all, much less the privileged counter-arguments being made, e.g. that ~$1000/yr for that software wasn't significant compared to what I was being paid. I'd much rather donate $1000/yr to the R Foundation than propagate the pay-to-play game being offered. There's bound to be a similar model for publications. On 12/3/20 9:42 AM, Tom Johnson wrote: > https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusiv > e-and-exclusionary/ > <https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusi > ve-and-exclusionary/> -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Excellent idea! It never crossed my mind to buy a temporary license just to check it out. I doubt there would be risk of accusations of reverse engineering because I'm unlikely to code something others would find acceptable.
The only relevant question I have about publishing would be the expert criticism of the peer reviewers (and the herding of such done by the editors). I value that criticism and often end up taking the critic's side *against* my co-authors ... because I'm a jerk that way. Of course, you can get undisciplined criticism from any yahoo on Reddit. But there's a discipline encoded in any given editors' roster of reliable critics. So, it's not the recording-ideas-forever that brings value. It's that rolodex roster, and the good faith participation of them, that's valuable. It would be nice if good faith criticism were not merely profitable, but something people wanted to do as a part of their community. On 12/3/20 2:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > There's another side to this, which is that people who sell things often try as hard as they can to make those things seem essential and otherwise out-of-reach. To lead potential customers into thinking there is energy barrier where there really isn't. I find I sometimes buy software or a (text)book when I just want to know if there is any there, there. If I really need it, invariably I end up using open source software. For example, I can't imagine going back to ArcGIS as now there are QGIS an various geotools for R (the latter two which are free). This luxury of being able to a bit of lookahead by, well, wasting some money, is what LMIC scientists can't do. Likewise one could carefully engineer some code to do run quickly, or just slam down some slow scripts on a cluster and waste some energy and get the same answer. It's not so clear to me that the academic publishing industry really adds a whole lot of value. Heck, it's not so clear to me that recording ideas forever is really all that useful either, but that's another story. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:34 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How Prestige Journals Remain Elite, Exclusive And Exclusionary | beSpacific > >> “Nature might as well post a sign that says "LMICs scientists not welcome here", said Catherine Kyobutungi, Executive Director at the African Population and Health Research Center. “Nature is out of touch with reality. It is a daily struggle for institutions like ours to financially support our researchers to pay open access fees. A few funders pay these fees but only for papers coming out of projects they have funded. I don't know in which world Nature thinks it's okay to charge fees equal to or more than the small grants many LMICs researchers can access,” she added. > > It's not well-summed-up by "prestige". This topic came up in FriAM, recently, wherein I objected to purchasing a proprietary tool to replicate the research of another group, preferring a tool that *is* more available to LMIC researchers like R. It was amazing to me that I had to make this argument at all, much less the privileged counter-arguments being made, e.g. that ~$1000/yr for that software wasn't significant compared to what I was being paid. I'd much rather donate $1000/yr to the R Foundation than propagate the pay-to-play game being offered. > > There's bound to be a similar model for publications. > > On 12/3/20 9:42 AM, Tom Johnson wrote: >> https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusiv >> e-and-exclusionary/ >> <https://www.bespacific.com/how-prestige-journals-remain-elite-exclusi >> ve-and-exclusionary/> > > > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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