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Government Shutdown

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Jochen Fromm-5

Government Shutdown

What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?

-J.

Sent from Android

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Patrick Reilly

Re: Government Shutdown

We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?
>
> -J.
>
>
> Sent from Android
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Is it because the Republicans want to stop health care for the poor? That would be evil.

-J.

Sent from Android

-------- Original message --------
From: Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]>
Date: 01/10/2013 08:01 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Russ Abbott

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Patrick Reilly

What happened is that the Republicans are refusing to allocate money to fund the government unless the health-care law is excluded. They are willing to shut down the entire government as a way to stop a program that was lawfully enacted. It's a backdoor way to win a fight they already lost. In effect they are holding the government hostage to demands that have been rejected by the normal political process.

On Sep 30, 2013 11:01 PM, "Patrick Reilly" <[hidden email]> wrote:

We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?
>
> -J.
>
>
> Sent from Android
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--
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not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
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Barry MacKichan

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Only intellectually and morally, in certain parts of the country and society.

On Sep 30, 2013, at 11:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Is America bankrupt?

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glen ropella

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Russ Abbott

Russ Abbott wrote at 10/01/2013 08:51 AM:
> What happened is that the Republicans are refusing to allocate money to
> fund the government unless the health-care law is excluded. They are
> willing to shut down the entire government as a way to stop a program that
> was lawfully enacted. It's a backdoor way to win a fight they already
> lost. In effect they are holding the government hostage to demands that
> have been rejected by the normal political process.

Well, I believe I'm as pissed off at the Moron wing of the Republicans as anyone. Their shutdown of the NIH today has cost me something like $2.5k (wasted time spent prepping for a cancelled meeting, non-refundable hotel, etc.).

But, to be fair, it seems they're using the "power of the purse" to check/balance the other half of congress and the executive. In this case, I'm a victim. So, it pisses me off. But back under W, I _wished_ they would use the power of the purse to resist funding a few things. So, after taking a deep breath and thinking about how our (seemingly) dysfunctional government functions, I can't be entirely negative.

BTW, I took a look at http://coveroregon.com this morning and it is quite cool to be able to compare the insurance organizations I know with ones I've never heard of. And, so far _all_ of the plans are much cheaper than what my (small business) was paying 2 years ago for similar coverage.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
I've seen the stars disappear in the sun

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Owen Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

Administrator

A tempest in a teapot. Oh, wait!

-- Owen

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:06 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Russ Abbott wrote at 10/01/2013 08:51 AM:

What happened is that the Republicans are refusing to allocate money to
fund the government unless the health-care law is excluded. They are
willing to shut down the entire government as a way to stop a program that
was lawfully enacted. It's a backdoor way to win a fight they already
lost. In effect they are holding the government hostage to demands that
have been rejected by the normal political process.

Well, I believe I'm as pissed off at the Moron wing of the Republicans as anyone. Their shutdown of the NIH today has cost me something like $2.5k (wasted time spent prepping for a cancelled meeting, non-refundable hotel, etc.).

But, to be fair, it seems they're using the "power of the purse" to check/balance the other half of congress and the executive. In this case, I'm a victim. So, it pisses me off. But back under W, I _wished_ they would use the power of the purse to resist funding a few things. So, after taking a deep breath and thinking about how our (seemingly) dysfunctional government functions, I can't be entirely negative.

BTW, I took a look at http://coveroregon.com this morning and it is quite cool to be able to compare the insurance organizations I know with ones I've never heard of. And, so far _all_ of the plans are much cheaper than what my (small business) was paying 2 years ago for similar coverage.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
I've seen the stars disappear in the sun

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android

Gillian Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Patrick Reilly

I am amused:

Sith work together better. My nephiews get along better. But a room a grown adults....

Hmmm

Where's Darth Sidius and or Emperor palpatine when you need them?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote:

We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?
>
> -J.
>
>
> Sent from Android
>

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
[hidden email].

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Roger Critchlow-2

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

This was fun: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won last fall with double digit margins, the population is > 80% white, and there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any other way for quite a while. They aren't the majority of the GOP, but they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his non-refundable travel expenses. So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down that way.

This http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/ was also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a liberal perspective, uses a measure he calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to describe “the extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to out-groups.”

-- rec --

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Gillian Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on this one :P

(For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

This was fun: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won last fall with double digit margins, the population is > 80% white, and there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any other way for quite a while. They aren't the majority of the GOP, but they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his non-refundable travel expenses. So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down that way.

This http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/ was also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a liberal perspective, uses a measure he calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to describe “the extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to out-groups.”

-- rec --

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Owen Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

Administrator

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme: over the top multiplying of leverage.

-- Owen

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on this one :P

(For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

This was fun: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won last fall with double digit margins, the population is > 80% white, and there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any other way for quite a while. They aren't the majority of the GOP, but they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his non-refundable travel expenses. So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down that way.

This http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/ was also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a liberal perspective, uses a measure he calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to describe “the extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to out-groups.”

-- rec --

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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============================================================
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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by glen ropella

On 10/1/13 11:06 AM, glen wrote:
> But, to be fair, it seems they're using the "power of the purse" to
> check/balance the other half of congress and the executive.
And if they do harm to the full faith and credit of the country, I hope
the White House will involve some `creative' Washington lawyers to deal
with them.

Marcus

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Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore

Just saw this tweet:
America was not shut down properly. Would you like to start America in safe mode, with free healthcare and without the guns? (Recommended)
https://twitter.com/cshallwriter/status/384935341318103041

-J.

On 10/01/2013 08:14 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

I am amused:

Sith work together better. My nephiews get along better. But a room a grown adults....

Hmmm

Where's Darth Sidius and or Emperor palpatine when you need them?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote:

We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?
>
> -J.
>
>
> Sent from Android
>

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
[hidden email].

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
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glen ropella

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 10/01/2013 11:55 AM:
> And if they do harm to the full faith and credit of the country, I hope the White House will involve some `creative' Washington lawyers to deal with them.

Yep. That is the job of the executive. I don't hope for it, I expect it. What I _hope_ for is that the republicans can bring a little order to their own house. The only thing worse than having a Moron wing of that party would be the lack of any 2nd party at all. Yog knows the Libertarians and the Greens can't play the role.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
The power of the Holy Ghost comes to town

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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cody dooderson

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore

Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better

government shutdown.

do senators not get sick?

then i blame the poor

Cody Smith

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on this one :P

(For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

This was fun: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won last fall with double digit margins, the population is > 80% white, and there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any other way for quite a while. They aren't the majority of the GOP, but they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his non-refundable travel expenses. So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down that way.

This http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/ was also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a liberal perspective, uses a measure he calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to describe “the extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to out-groups.”

-- rec --

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Gillian Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by glen ropella

Hmm a pragmatic question:

If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?

He might have to use a executive order.

Might also be a good time to lobby for just a whole other system, as the one we have now doesn't seem to work well.

Or do we say screw it and beg canada and the EU to purchase the US?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:08 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 10/01/2013 11:55 AM:

And if they do harm to the full faith and credit of the country, I hope the White House will involve some `creative' Washington lawyers to deal with them.

Yep. That is the job of the executive. I don't hope for it, I expect it. What I _hope_ for is that the republicans can bring a little order to their own house. The only thing worse than having a Moron wing of that party would be the lack of any 2nd party at all. Yog knows the Libertarians and the Greens can't play the role.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
The power of the Holy Ghost comes to town

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Steve Smith

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by cody dooderson

Dood -
> Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better
>
> government shutdown.
> do senators not get sick?
> then i blame the poor
>
Cody the Doodson
Reincarnated Basho
Nailed it first go!

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glen ropella

Re: Government Shutdown

In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore

Gillian Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 01:15 PM:
> If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby
> obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?

I don't really understand the question. We're talking about indictments (or more subtle methods) against those (e.g. Ted Cruz) who damage our national security and/or our ability to meet our fiduciary responsibilities. There's no firing, hiring, or striking involved.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Gather all around the young ones

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Gillian Densmore

Re: Government Shutdown

Unless I responded to the wrong thread- Or used a poor anology-

It's my understanding that because some people don't want nationalised health care and there was budget coming due they decided to not work and shutdown the government.

So my question is: as such can Obama not replace the people that forced the closure?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:02 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gillian Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 01:15 PM:

If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby
obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?

I don't really understand the question. We're talking about indictments (or more subtle methods) against those (e.g. Ted Cruz) who damage our national security and/or our ability to meet our fiduciary responsibilities. There's no firing, hiring, or striking involved.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Gather all around the young ones

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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