Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
 
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With all our concerns about Trump, and the article on 8 European populist .. 10 if you include US and Brexit .. I oddly got thinking about "our" kind of globalism: the Friam & WedTech lists, and open source Open Source Software and global communication. I daily chat with pioneers in tech fields, most of whom are not in my state or even my country .. if I can call it mine any more. And we get along just fine and the whole is greater than the some of its parts. I use GitHub to ask for an improvement in a software library. I use twitter to ask a question of a technologist. I store my data world wide, often which moves to be closer to the consumer. There are no walls, and there is a lot of cooperation. My world I guess is not Populist. I don't think that can be easily broken, but certainly Northern Korea has done it, as have some others. US? Don't most of us have the same experiences: Travel, co-workers, global facilities and so on? That at least is a ray of hope. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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"I daily chat with pioneers in tech fields, most of whom are not in my state or even my country .. if I can call it mine any more. And we get along just fine and the whole is greater than the some of its parts."
If the activity is commercial, then one could imagine that new protectionist policies could make it harder for you to perform financial transactions with your collaborators. You may instead be incentivized to work with domestic collaborators even if they
are inferior or less appropriate. You could try to sidestep the issue with Bitcoin, but then you are taking legal risks.
Marcus From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:10:50 PM To: Complexity Coffee Group; Wedtech Subject: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
With all our concerns about Trump, and the article on 8 European populist .. 10 if you include US and Brexit
.. I oddly got thinking about "our" kind of globalism: the Friam & WedTech lists, and open source Open Source Software and global communication.
I daily chat with pioneers in tech fields, most of whom are not in my state or even my country .. if I can call it mine any more. And we get along just fine and the whole is greater than the some of its parts.
I use GitHub to ask for an improvement in a software library. I use twitter to ask a question of a technologist. I store my data world wide, often which moves to be closer to the consumer. There are no walls, and there is a lot of cooperation. My world I guess
is not Populist.
I don't think that can be easily broken, but certainly Northern Korea has done it, as have some others. US?
Don't most of us have the same experiences: Travel, co-workers, global facilities and so on? That at least is a ray of hope.
-- Owen
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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For What It's Worth at around 710AM before some meditation on a stunningly nice FridayMorning: It depends. Sounds to me you're just geeking out about Social Media That's totally fine. It's pretty cool- or can be.. Keep in mind only certain Geeks are likely to know about or even want to use GitHub for example. And your (somewhat) preaching to the quire. Or at least the Trouble and Bass part. Not everyone wants to resort to FaceBook chat just to say hi. Some want to talk on that thing you routinely want to chuck off your roof: Da Phone. I know well the aholery of robodialers, as does everyone. Personally I screen my calls as nomorefobo doesn't (yet) like CyberMesa. Their's draw backs to offshoring and the way "Globalism" is going.; I had a (infamously) problematic issue with Googles Wallet. They sent me to India (where google has some it's tech support) They just didn't know what the issue was. Problem: Wouldn't it be a good thing for google (for example) to have decen number of people in irvine and mountain view to be good ol fationed skunks such. For one: what if something goes wrong? Some off shored out fits simply can't (or won't ) fix issues though. A lot of places are mis-using tech and globalism " ". Go to Smiths. Self check out( for example): Why don't they hire a few more dudes for that? Google: Everything is beta, and might not work.. Comcast TSA Etc. On the brighter side: OMFG voice-to-text! YAR Why didn't I use that sooner? Facebook(sort of) is useful and fun to chat with some of my friends Or a quick check in about meetups. I'm part of several global clubs. Some do fucking awsome work in their areas. I suspect Dad's Smarmy side is geeking out about That Person. I know not where this flare up of domestic and global Drama will lead. No place good i'd imagine. Ask not for trouble. Ye shalt get it. In the meen time check out the sunrse it is super pretty, and the sky is wonderfully clear. Let us hope warm sunny weather is soon. On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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Gil - The sun just rose here as well, as I read this... I guess Donald's powers are weaker than he thinks. - Steve On 1/27/17 7:24 AM, Gillian Densmore
wrote:
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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Indeed! ^_^ On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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I think of "culture is what you take for granted" and you fine yourself a bit taken aback or surprised when your culture stumbles across aspects in other cultures that you *don't* take for granted. Not unpleasant or threatening, just "oh, looka that!". I think about what I called "our" kind of globalism as part of our culture, one that takes for granted daily constructive interactive world wide (is Friam Santa Fe or NM minority yet, or even close to US minority? .. I hope so!). This runs deep and we do and should take it for granted: Email, Twitter, GitHub, Open Software issues & fixes, getting/giving help globally. And I suspect all of us have a "second language" making it easier to be more deeply involved with another geographical culture. For example, when I read of the recent earthquakes in Italy, I sent email to friends w/in 80km of the site asking if everything was OK (in Italian because they want me to and are patient with my mistakes!). I bet lots of us also have these "take for granted" instances of globalism. I'm presuming this sort of globalism will not be easy to disrupt, even with the new culture of populism. But it is why I find populism, 10 powerful versions of it (see original post and skim/read the article), a bit threatening. And not just Trump .. there are 9 more given the article. -- Owen On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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I remain confused by the concept of "elites". Each one of those listed in the article is "anti-establishment". Is that what "elites" means? And if so, then what does "establishment" mean? To be clear, I'm not asking for any one person's opinion of who is or is not "elite" or what defines the class according to that one slice. As I've already explained, I believe all of us are elite in some sense, even if by the simple historicity of evolution and ontogeny. E.g. I'm much more me than you are me. Or to wax philsophical, the only person I know is conscious is me. Likewise, anyone who can, say, type is elite. Anyone who can weld aluminum is elite. Etc. I'm asking for the archetype these people (some of whom are here on this list) are referring to. It must be a _complex_ of attributes... those not only with power, but with the Machiavellian ability and motivations to use that power... the smoky back room negotiators ... the 12 Freemasons who run the world... etc. As Black Sabbath describes: "Treating people like pawns in chess." There's got to be some way to coherently define what they mean by "elites". On 01/27/2017 09:01 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: > I'm presuming this sort of globalism will not be easy to disrupt, even with the new culture of populism. But it is why I find populism, 10 powerful versions of it (see original post and skim/read the article), a bit threatening. And not just Trump .. there are 9 more given the article. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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< I remain confused by the concept of "elites". >
An elite is a symbol for an unknown bad guy. The bad buy exists somewhere at a distance. The elite must have caused me and my kind pain, or ignored me and my pain, because things aren't going well for me. This symbol validates their irresponsibility, and makes them feel better. The symbol is introduced by cynical politicians on both sides, but mostly right wingers, that need some voters to unify around them and give them more power than they had. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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OK. Cool. So if we go back to Lakoff's idea that at least part of Trump's appeal <https://georgelakoff.com/2016/07/23/understanding-trump-2/> is his vague use of language, allowing particular audience members more flexibility in their inferences from what Trump said, then there must be something _interesting_ about this type of symbol. "Elite" can't be a symbol like, say, "dark matter" is a symbol. "Dark matter" is a very particular thing introduced to solve a very particular problem. Despite the ultimate referents of "dark matter" or "elites" being multiple or unknown, there's a big difference between them as symbols. It's almost like "elites" has _both_ a high fan-in and fan-out, whereas "dark matter" has a single use case but lots of potential referents. The way you describe it, it sounds like "elites" is yet another aspect of "victimhood". In order to be susceptible to the (purposefully vague) rhetoric, you have to feel like a victim. And you might be especially ripe for the rhetoric if you have _not_ already identified your perpetrator. This way, the demagogue can use the term "elites" and rely on a kind of "recursive explanation" trick to pass the buck down the inferential road. If that were true, then perhaps the idea is testable. Those victims who have already identified a perpetrator should be less susceptible to the rhetoric, or at least ham-handed rhetoric like Trump's. I listened to part of an interview with Frauke Petry this morning on NPR. It strikes me that she has a very clear idea who the perpetrator(s) is(are). It's difficult for me to believe someone like her would be susceptible to the rhetoric of someone like Trump or even a dilettante like Bannon. So, do these (otherwise seemingly intelligent) people _also_ use the necessarily vague symbol "elites" in the same way? Or are they more tightly/particularly bound? On 01/27/2017 09:34 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > An elite is a symbol for an unknown bad guy. The bad buy exists somewhere at a distance. The elite must have caused me and my kind pain, or ignored me and my pain, because things aren't going well for me. This symbol validates their irresponsibility, and makes them feel better. The symbol is introduced by cynical politicians on both sides, but mostly right wingers, that need some voters to unify around them and give them more power than they had. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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< The way you describe it, it sounds like "elites" is yet another aspect of "victimhood". In order to be susceptible to the (purposefully vague) rhetoric, you have to feel like a victim. And you might be especially ripe for the rhetoric if you have _not_ already identified your perpetrator. This way, the demagogue can use the term "elites" and rely on a kind of "recursive explanation" trick to pass the buck down the inferential road. >
Many Trump voters, e.g. midwest blue collar folks, don't appear to want to present it as victimhood. They came to expect a standard of living, but it was no longer sustainable given the evolution of the economy. They want to believe it wasn't their failure, so if a demagogue provides them with a story that he knows the perpetrator and will crush them (a Mexican! An Elite!), then that's just perfect. < I listened to part of an interview with Frauke Petry this morning on NPR. It strikes me that she has a very clear idea who the perpetrator(s) is(are). It's difficult for me to believe someone like her would be susceptible to the rhetoric of someone like Trump or even a dilettante like Bannon. So, do these (otherwise seemingly intelligent) people _also_ use the necessarily vague symbol "elites" in the same way? Or are they more tightly/particularly bound? > She's not susceptible, but she is looking for people that are. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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On 01/27/2017 10:17 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Many Trump voters, e.g. midwest blue collar folks, don't appear to want to present it as victimhood. They came to expect a standard of living, but it was no longer sustainable given the evolution of the economy. They want to believe it wasn't their failure, so if a demagogue provides them with a story that he knows the perpetrator and will crush them (a Mexican! An Elite!), then that's just perfect. Hm. I suppose it's reasonable to further circumscribe "elites" by saying that it simply _cannot_ have a definite referent. When the particular populist sits down with someone like Hillary Clinton to quaff a pint and eat a hot dog, it's likely Clinton will be either removed as a member of the referent class or at least be considered "one of the good ones" or an accidental member of the "elites". That would imply that "elites" is defined by its indefiniteness, not merely a symbol that can be used regardless of whether it's bound or unbound. It must be an indefinite symbol. That helps me think about it. There are lots of symbols we use on a regular basis becuase they work as schema, concept clusters that have free variables yet still cohere. >> ... Frauke Petry ... > > She's not susceptible, but she is looking for people that are. So, the question arises whether people like Frauke _know_ they're using an indefinite symbol, like a magician using sleight of hand, or if they really believe the way they've bound it is _the_ value it should take on? I'm still a bit of a humanist in the sense that I reject original sin and believe the overwhelming majority of people have good intentions. To know you're using an indefinite symbol and lie by omission, fail to tell your audience that the referent of "elites" is questionable would be a purposeful lie. So, my preference would be to assume people like Trump (who I think is too simple to know) and Frauke (who is not too simple, but still susceptible to confirmation bias) don't realize "elites" is and must be indefinite for it to do any linguistic work. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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< Hm. I suppose it's reasonable to further circumscribe "elites" by saying that it simply _cannot_ have a definite referent. When the particular populist sits down with someone like Hillary Clinton to quaff a pint and eat a hot dog, it's likely Clinton will be either removed as a member of the referent class or at least be considered "one of the good ones" or an accidental member of the "elites". >
On CNN, Van Jones has this series "The Messy Truth", where he plays (kind of annoyingly) the liberal apologist. There's an interview with some coal mining folks from West Virginia talking about why they voted for Trump. One of the participants, in an earlier television appearance during the campaign, had asked Hillary Clinton about her "We're going to put a lot of coal miners out of business" remark. They don't show much of the original confrontation, but it wasn't clear if she actually had a chance to answer or took the opportunity. All that is shown is that it was awkward. Is there any heartfelt and reasoned answer that she could have given that would be more compelling than just eating hot dogs and drinking beer? There is type of person that can be persuaded based on low-dimensional similarity and feelings of familiarity. However, in my experience, there are also a few alphas in every blue-collar community like this that are trying to show they in charge. This guy picked a fight in that setting because that's his place in his world, and it is important that his world stay small. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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Marcus wrote:
> There is type of person that can be persuaded based on low-dimensional similarity and feelings of familiarity. When the Donald complemented his overly long (compensate much?) Red Tie with a Red "gimme cap", it did double duty of covering his embarassing (but surely very expensive) hairdo and offering a "low dimensional similarity" to a hooooj portion of the population... Imagine HIllary in the same cap (in blue?). Not quite the same effect... - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
OK, maybe. But I think that type, that can't be "persuaded" [*] based on low-dimensional similarity and familiarity, has very few members. The real problem is establishing the similarity and familiarity. H Clinton was not very good at it. B Clinton was. And even when confronting an ideologically empowered alpha, it's trivial to establish similarity and familiarity by adopting alpha traits. You simply slap them on the back for being alpha. Tell them you're just like they are, that you will fight as a soldier or a general for what you believe because that's the way _we_ SHOULD be. Even though you're in opposite corners of the ring, you can still establish similarity and familiarity with your opponent. In fact, it's trivially easy to do with alphas. Betas are more difficult. Regardless, your right that my defined-by-indefiniteness is not adequate to cover the problem you're raising. Although concreteness is necessary for recategorizing an "elite" out of the class, it's not sufficient. You have to actively demonstrate. Perhaps this is why wonky introverts don't make good politicians, whereas back-slapping morons get elected all the time. Perhaps the more powerful defining quality of "elites" is the standoffishness, aloofness, where every smile looks like a smirk, and when you try to pat them on the back, they recoil in horror. 8^) That's personal for me because I don't like to be touched. And my dad tried to convince me that when you shake people's hand, you should _crush_ them ... unless they're female of course. [sigh] The "elite" use big words and their sentences require parsing. If that's the case, then it's also a matter of hermeneutics and the occult. The more work you have to put in to see a return, to understand what's being said/done, the more likely the author/sender is an "elite". There's a sense that "elites" wear more/thicker/plaited masks than the regular Joe. Nice. So we now have 2 properties I can understand: indefiniteness and hermeneutical. Thanks. [*] In quotes because actual persuasion to agreement isn't needed. All that's needed is to begin thinking about the person concretely, not abstractly. You don't have to agree with Clinton's ideas in order to remove her from the fictitious "elite". On 01/27/2017 11:04 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > On CNN, Van Jones has this series "The Messy Truth", where he plays (kind of annoyingly) the liberal apologist. There's an interview with some coal mining folks from West Virginia talking about why they voted for Trump. One of the participants, in an earlier television appearance during the campaign, had asked Hillary Clinton about her "We're going to put a lot of coal miners out of business" remark. They don't show much of the original confrontation, but it wasn't clear if she actually had a chance to answer or took the opportunity. All that is shown is that it was awkward. Is there any heartfelt and reasoned answer that she could have given that would be more compelling than just eating hot dogs and drinking beer? There is type of person that can be persuaded based on low-dimensional similarity and feelings of familiarity. However, in my experience, there are also a few alphas in every blue-collar community like this that are trying to show they in charge. This guy picked a fight in that setting because that's his place in his world, and it is important that his world stay small. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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In reply to this post by gepr
It's mostly about people who have money and power. They go together. On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:18 AM, glen ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA [hidden email] mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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In reply to this post by gepr
Glen writes:
< The more work you have to put in to see a return, to understand what's being said/done, the more likely the author/sender is an "elite". > I've gone to talks where I eventually figure-out that the topic is fairly simple, but I didn't know the hash from the list of historical scientists that name a method to the narrow meaning those hyphenated names have in the context of the talk. They could have made it intuitive and accessible, but they couldn't be bothered. That I find kind of clubby and irritating but endurable. You used the term "work" anyway and that makes sense to me. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2
And now we have a whole cabinet of billionaires. Thank goodness we are free of those darn elites! From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff It's mostly about people who have money and power. They go together. On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:18 AM, glen
☣ <[hidden email]> wrote:
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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In reply to this post by gepr
" But I think that type, that can't be "persuaded" [*] based on low-dimensional similarity and familiarity, has very few members. The real problem is establishing the similarity and familiarity."
Most any introvert has had the experience of some patronizing know-nothing `help' them out of their shell. Is there anything more pointless than having to politely play along while run their `find some common ground' routine? They may seem persuaded but really they just want the room to be empty again. If a personality is high dimensional, then a low-dimensional connection is cannot be a true measure of similarity (assuming that was even sought). Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Heh, I shoulda known you wouldn't let that slide. You're right. But any introvert that wants to contribute and the only way to contribute is to get past the vapid (but very real) barriers must be capable of establishing that thin similarity _before_ dialing it back and refining the dissimilarities.
Of course that raises the question of whether the introverts really _can_ care about anyone other than themselves. If one's strongest inclinations are antisocial, it's reasonable to call them a misanthrope, which given Trump's "germophobia" and desire to surround himself with people who say what he wants to hear, we might claim he's an introvert too ... only extroverted when "the room is empty" of dissent. On January 27, 2017 12:23:09 PM PST, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote: > >Most any introvert has had the experience of some patronizing >know-nothing `help' them out of their shell. Is there anything more >pointless than having to politely play along while run their `find some >common ground' routine? They may seem persuaded but really they just >want the room to be empty again. If a personality is high >dimensional, then a low-dimensional connection is cannot be a true >measure of similarity (assuming that was even sought). -- ⛧glen⛧ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software
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"Of course that raises the question of whether the introverts really _can_ care about anyone other than themselves."
Some introverts seek strong connections to tight network of friends (a preference for actual similarity or well-understood differences), some might look at others fearfully and be concerned with predictability or loyalty, others don't like tribes and object to the behavior of finding common subspaces of similarity, others want to negotiate principles or third parties that govern how, why, and when people interact. There are lots of ways to have the property of being an introvert just as there are lots of ways to be an extrovert. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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