Frank -
I'll see your Boston Dynamics and raise you some Frog Skin Cells
gone (sent) rogue.
Frog
Skin Cells Gone Rogue
Slime mold move, over, there is a new (maze running) sheriff in
town!
And did I mention this already?
Human
Skin Cells gone (sent) rogue.
And I *am* interested in more about your "standard
representation". I understand from your post that you didn't
follow the arc of the work after you left, but perhaps you know
more about the "state of the art" as it did evolve? The problem
with a long and interesting (checquered?) career is that we can't
possibly keep up with all the threads we dropped along the way?
On first reading your task/aspirations in the project sounds more
like a CNC "tool path" than LMA specs (Laban Movement Analysis).
I realize that most of my posts are at least "jesty" if not
(intended as) as Snarky as Marcus' model of "contributors whose
names start with S" might suggest... but I really *am* interested
in the implications of purpose-built languages for specific
domains which perhaps represent a basis for finding generalized
abstractions between those domains. For example, the
specification languages for robotic movement vs the specifications
for human dance would seem to be both polar opposites in some
ways, yet would also seem to be "the same domain" (at least at
the level of joint positions, rigid connectors, etc.).
LMA has roots in Eukinetics and Choreutics (roughly effort and
harmony), both of which would seem to *ultimately* be relevant to
an evolved robotics motion protocol... Ed's point about the
motors of the era (late 60s) not being powerful enough for the
robotic horse designs they came up with. Is it possible that a
refined understanding of body/effort/shape/space might yield
designs which do NOT require the implied amount of horsepower
(pun/irony intended) for the motors to drive each hip/knee/wrist
? This all, of course, is the provenance of SteampPunk
literature where it is assumed/imagined that the
scientists/engineers manage to obtain a "clever means"
understanding of the relevant mechanisms with more primitive
technology (e.g. Steam, Brass, Celluloid, ...) than we have
today. Did we *need* to have more advanced (read: Capable,
Forgiving, yet-more-Workable) materials and tools before we could
work out these things? The Existence of LMA at the time (late
60's) would suggest that there may well have been extant models of
space, shape, harmony, kinematics from the world of Choreography
than Engineers and Scientists might have known?
Ed may well have some knowledge/remembrance of such in that
era. Obviously, Muybridge's
work would have been strongly referenced if not central? It is
hard for me to remember that all of you half a generation ahead of
me were "just kids" (grad students) back in those days. I only
think of them (you) as the mature professionals in your fields
that you were when I met you (or caught wind of your
work/reputations). I don't know who our youngest members might
be here, I think Cody might hold that distinction? We are
definitely long of tooth and grey of beard (apologies to the
women) here!
Chevaline!
Mecanique Grenouille
The last task Raibert mentioned to me before I
was promoted and hired by another school was to develop a
standard representation for the "trajectory" of a robot. This
would have been a set of time series for each "joint" etc.
I wish I hadn't left but I'm sure that task has
been accomplished.
F
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
For all the hype, robots are
limited in what they can do in your home - The
Washington Post
From: Friam <[hidden email]>
On Behalf Of
Frank Wimberly
Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2021 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dancing Robots
You darned cynics
I'll find some
aiding-the-handicapped examples if you like.
Frank
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
The "dancing" robots certainly are compelling to
view, though I can see why Gary asked if it was real
or memorex (CGI)... there was enough uncanny valley
going on in their moves to make it clear that they
were following a prescribed choreography. The
miniscule detail in the dance moves is what I
*think* makes it impressive. I am doubting that
the proportions and range of motion/etc of the
robotic humanoids is as close to humans' as implied
by the constraints (in software, in choreography)
imposed.
I also wonder how much of this is essentially
driven by something like MoCap that is then tweaked
to match the dynamical performance
envelope/constraints of the robot simulacrum? Or
by derivation, ws ther some kind of machine learning
going on on a *suite* of human MoCap data sets. Or
is there a very capable cyber-choreographer who
implicitly understands the robot's "coupled
impedance elements" in a way that allows them to
hack/hint/nuance the instructions down to this level
of performance?
Are these class of robots targeted for mission-spec
autonomy or are they more targeted to default to
being Waldos with some self-driving constraints?
I haven't tracked whether the Laban Notation
movement has actually been useful to extend into
robotic-motion... it starts to seem relevant once
humanoid Robots are presented dancing human-dances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laban_movement_analysis
The "impressive illusion" is that these Robots are
responding to the music itself and to one another
(couples dancing) in a way that seems highly
doubtful. They appear to be merely very artful
puppets with wireless "strings". No small feat,
bringing them to this point, but the most
interesting/impressive aspects are likely careful
bit-chiseling on the instruction sets.
It would be more impressive if
they were helping an elderly person go to the
bathroom. Chasing a person in irregular terrain
would be convincing too.
Thanks for letting me
know. In that case, it is truly mind
blowing. I had no idea robotic tech had come
so far.
On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at
10:57 AM Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]>
wrote:
Real!!
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
Serious question,
since I didn't make it to vfriam
yesterday. With the advances in CGI
these days, I don't know if this is
computer generated or real. Which is
it?
On Sat, Apr 3,
2021 at 10:02 AM Frank Wimberly
<[hidden email]>
wrote:
For those who
haven't seen the video that was
mentioned in yesterday's
meeting:
Marc has
accomplished a lot since this:
-
Raibert,
M. H., Wimberly, F. C.
1984. Tabular control of
balance in a dynamic
legged system. IEEE
Trans. Systems, Man, and
Cybernetics 14:334--339.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
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