Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
 
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As you know a couple of corporations are objecting the the requirement that they provide health insurance that includes contraceptive options to their employees. The argument is that doing so forces the owners of the corporation to violate their religions beliefs.
There are a number of problems with that argument. Two immediate ones are that exceptions of that sort can't be bounded. Which religious beliefs should be protected? Should a corporation be allowed to refuse to buy insurance unless the doctors agree that only male doctors will treat male patients and only female doctors will treat female patients as some religions require? Theses sorts of objections could be elaborated forever.
A different objection to the corporation's argument is that corporations don't have religious beliefs. So it is not possible to violate them. The law explicitly distinguishes between a corporation and its owners, who may have religious beliefs. Corporations are separate legal entities. They are given certain rights and protections, and are subject to certain legal requirements. Requiring a corporation to do something is not the same thing as requiring the owner of the corporation to do that thing.
This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask. Let's assume that I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them?
-- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105; CS Dept.: 323-343-6690 Google+: http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott,
CS Wiki and the courses I teach
A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations" How the Fed can fix the economy (2 pages): ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
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Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and
not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors, then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no employment benefits. But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local friendly employment lawyer. Robert C On 12/5/13 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: > This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask. Let's assume that > I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not > incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone > know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Dear Russ, Your 500 workers will soon hopefully be covered by the Affordable Care Act. Fortunately, the President, for a change, seems to be making up for businessmen and corporations who don't think paying health insurance is in the interest of their profit making goals.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Robert J. Cordingley <[hidden email]> wrote: IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors, then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no employment benefits. But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local friendly employment lawyer. Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA [hidden email] mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merlelefkoff ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley
However, sometimes the people you think are independent contractors actually aren't (determined by audit or by filing a request with the IRS and/or your state). As I understand it, if these people are determined to be employees, then you are an employer and the rules about providing health insurance plans for part- and/or full-time employees apply to you, whether or not you've incorporated. On 12/06/2013 06:34 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote: > IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and > not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors, > then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no > employment benefits. But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local > friendly employment lawyer. > Robert C > > On 12/5/13 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: >> This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask. Let's assume that >> I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not >> incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone >> know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them? > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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It sure would be a lot simpler if everyone (employers and employees alike) simply had to pay into a single plan, like most of the developed world. But, we’re the USA, and we know better :-)
On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:39 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote: > However, sometimes the people you think are independent contractors > actually aren't (determined by audit or by filing a request with the IRS > and/or your state). As I understand it, if these people are determined > to be employees, then you are an employer and the rules about providing > health insurance plans for part- and/or full-time employees apply to > you, whether or not you've incorporated. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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In reply to this post by glen ep ropella
You might find the IRS Topic 762 - Independent Contractor vs. Employee
useful at: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762.html It says it was updated in October this year so hopefully any ACA impacts have been applied. Some links to pdf docs provide expanded info. However this tends to approach the issue from the other end: if you provide certain benefits like medical insurance you are (probably) an employer not whether the law says you have to provide such benefits. Thanks Robert C On 12/6/13 10:39 AM, glen e. p. ropella wrote: > However, sometimes the people you think are independent contractors > actually aren't (determined by audit or by filing a request with the IRS > and/or your state). As I understand it, if these people are determined > to be employees, then you are an employer and the rules about providing > health insurance plans for part- and/or full-time employees apply to > you, whether or not you've incorporated. > > On 12/06/2013 06:34 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote: >> IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and >> not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors, >> then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no >> employment benefits. But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local >> friendly employment lawyer. >> Robert C >> >> On 12/5/13 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott wrote: >>> This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask. Let's assume that >>> I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not >>> incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone >>> know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them? >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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Yeah, the feds are the lesser worry, though (in my opinion). It's the states you have to watch out for, especially during budget shortfalls and periods of high unemployment. On 12/06/2013 02:52 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote: > You might find the IRS Topic 762 - Independent Contractor vs. Employee > useful at: > http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762.html > It says it was updated in October this year so hopefully any ACA impacts > have been applied. Some links to pdf docs provide expanded info. > However this tends to approach the issue from the other end: if you > provide certain benefits like medical insurance you are (probably) an > employer not whether the law says you have to provide such benefits. -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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In reply to this post by Russ Abbott
From the 99% club: Corporations aren't humans. I would like to with draw there blanket statement and clarify a little: To the degree they are a a hiveminded collective that makes a Genosian jells- that entire brain...still is not human.
---------------------------------- As a follow up: Mr Glen, are you considering a Kickstarter project? When you say "some cooperation's object..." . Is it "Holy shit! Health care is fucking expensive " , I just wanted to have (fill in the blank) While in a Kickstart phase?
it's my understanding even comparatively agile Social Enterprises needs a attorney on retainer. On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance
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On 12/07/2013 08:31 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> As a follow up: Mr Glen, are you considering a Kickstarter project? > When you say "some cooperation's object..." . Is it "Holy shit! Health > care is fucking expensive " , I just wanted to have (fill in the blank) > While in a Kickstart phase? To be clear, it was Russ who asserted that "corporations object", not me. And you may have insulted Russ by confusing us. ;-) No, I don't have any projects that would warrant a charity venue like kickstarter. -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com And therefore the victories won by a master of war gain him neither reputation for wisdom nor merit for valour. -- Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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