Assuredy Dr. Holmes (Re Wolfram)

[Nick Thompson]

Well, I have only been a Wolfram nut for a week now, so the rest of you
have a head start on me, but....

It seems to me you can do anything with it you can do with a metaphor, and
to me, metaphors are EVERYTHING in science. (But I come from a part of
science (evolutionary stuff) where the role of a metaphor is dramatically
obvious).  

My fear a bout Wolfram (and complexity theory in general) is its use as the
foundation for antiscientific irrationalism.  

"If simple laws", the argument runs, "are capable of producing disorderly
effects through small changes in the initial conditions on which they work,
then aren't our attempts to discover the laws that govern our complex world
hopeless.  And if hopeless for their stated purposes, then what are our
REAL purposes is seeking lawful relations in nature.   After all, isn't the
pursuit of knowledge just an unseemly mix of ideology and self
aggrandizement?"

Darwinism is either

        1. An attempt on the part of the devil to subjugate Christianity

        2. An attempt on the part of men to subjugate women

        3. An attempt on the part of the ruling classes to subjugate the workers.  

        4. All of the above.

(Pick one)

NIck

Nicholas S. Thompson
Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
[hidden email]
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
 [hidden email]

> [Original Message]
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Date: 12/9/2004 11:00:19 AM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8
>
> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore) (Nicholas Thompson)
>    2. A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
>       (Nicholas Thompson)
>    3. Re: A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
>       (Roger E Critchlow Jr)
>    4. Ride to SFI (Nicholas Thompson)
>    5. wolframspam (Robert Holmes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:08:07 -0500
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [FRIAM] 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Owen,
>
> In Re Paul Bloom, can our friendship tolerate a rant concerning Paul

Bloom?

>
> !@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&^%$%&*(
>
> There, I said it.  
>
> Now, on a more reasoned note.  
>
> Consider the following argument:
>
> Lightning is either
>
> Thor's anger visited upon the earth
>
> or
>
> Just an electrical discharge.
>
> We know that lightning is more than just an electrical discharge.
>
> Therefore it must be Thor's anger visited upon the earth.
>
> compare that with
>
> The soul is either
>
> an ephemeral, unmeasurable, insubstantial substance that however guides
> our material being
>
> or
>
> just a chunk of gunk somewhere North of the Optic Chiasm
>
> We know that the soul is not just a chunk of gunk somewhere North of the
> Optic Chiasm
>
> THEREFORE, it must be an ephemeral, unmeasurable, insubstantial substance
> that however guides our material being
>
> Paul Bloom!!!!  <mutter, mutter, snarl, snarl>
>
>
> Is WEDSTECH happening to day?
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>  [hidden email]
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Date: 12/8/2004 11:00:23 AM
> > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
> >
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Owen Densmore)
> >    2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
> >    3. RE: HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Gus Koehler)
> >    4. Re: Brain grown from rat cells flies jet (Mike Kruchoski)
> >    5. Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Owen Densmore)
> >    6. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Tim Densmore)
> >    7. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Fred Seibel)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:22:15 -0700
> > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
> >    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:45:02 -0700
> > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Interesting discussion on "dualism" via development psycology:
> >    http://www.edge.org/video/56k/bloom.html
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:58:31 -0800
> > From: "Gus Koehler" <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <000101c4dc7d$fbde5050$6401a8c0@VALUEDD3F7D0D1>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Check out this web site which provides a different view of Darwin:
> > http://thedarwinproject.com/about/about.html
> >
> > Loye has a book, downloads, and CD available that identifies where

Darwin

> > discusses cooperative values.
> >
> >  http://thedarwinproject.com/library/library.html
> >
> >
> > Gus
> >
> > Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> > Principal
> > Time Structures
> > 1545 University Ave.
> > Sacramento, CA 95826
> > 916-564-8683
> > Fax: [phone]
> > www.timestructures.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf
> > Of Owen Densmore
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:22 AM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam
> > Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> >
> > Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
> >    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 10:41:36 -0700
> > From: Mike Kruchoski <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Brain grown from rat cells flies jet
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207103646.02314598@192.168.1.155>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > Yeah, the problem was it could only fly through a maze to find the

cheese.

> >
> > However, the real concern is: Can they commission them as Air Force
> pilots???
> >
> > At 08:15 AM 12/6/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >Wow
> > >
> >
>
><http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05/wbrain05.x
>

ml>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05/wbrain05.

> xml
> > >
> > >
> > >Dr. Robert Holmes
> > >
> > >PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
> > >mobile: [phone]
> > >web: <file://www.holmesacosta.com>www.holmesacosta.com
> > >============================================================
> > >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > >Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > >Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > >http://www.friam.org
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >    Mike Kruchoski
> >    Mission Research Corporation
> >    Albuquerque, NM
> >
> >    505-768-7630 (phone)
> >    505-768-7601 (fax)
> >    505-480-5000 (cell)
> >    505-853-6525 (ABL SPO)
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:51:29 -0700
> > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the links
> > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > McKay book.
> >    http://techbooksforfree.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:31:06 -0700
> > From: Tim Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Not specifically tech related, but this as an absolutely wonderful site.
> > http://promo.net/pg/
> >
> >
> > On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> >
> > > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the

links

> > > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > > McKay book.
> > >   http://techbooksforfree.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:49:41 -0700
> > From: Fred Seibel <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > Have to brag a bit--the author of Practical Common Lisp, the 4th item
> > at the mentioned site, is my son.
> >
> > It also seems that when you google "common lisp book" his site comes
> > back at the top.
> >
> > One of these days it will be published and will cost money in hardcopy.
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> >
> > > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the

links

> > > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > > McKay book.
> > >   http://techbooksforfree.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > http://www.friam.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
> > ************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:45:22 -0500
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>, stephen <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> All,
>
> So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.  
>
> I have passed through the four stages
>
> "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT

SERIOUSLY."
>
> I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
reversibility.
>
>
> Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.  
>
> Lets define a rule and a set of conditions on which that rule works to be
a
> reflector when the rule give back the set of conditions that were given
it.
>
>
> Obviously there are some boring reflectors.
>
> But just as obviously for a CA to be reversible in Wolfram's terms, it
has,
> at some point to hit a reflector, no?
>
> Allow me to manufacture some nomenclature here.
>
> Let the array produced by a rule from  S-0 ("step 0")  be S+1.    So when
> we apply a rule to S-0 we get S+1, OK.  
>
> In short hand  R(S-0) = S+1  Ok?  (the rule applied to S-0 gives you S+1.

>
>
> For a CA to be reversible, must it not be the case that FOR ever value of
S
> except the reflector
>
> R(S+1) = (S-0) ?
>
> In English, must it not be the case for every step in a reversible CA that
> not only does the rule, when applied to the previous step, produce the
next

> step, but that the rule when applied to the next step, produces the
> previous step.  
>
> Since we know already that the rule when applied to the next step produces
> the NEXT TO NEXT step, there must be something about  the rules of
> reversible CA;s that prevent all steps from being relfectors.  
>
> I have totally lost it, havent I?
>
> NIck
>
>  
>
> .  
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>  [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:01:25 -0700
> From: Roger E Critchlow Jr <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's
> court
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.  
> >
> > I have passed through the four stages
> >
> > "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT

SERIOUSLY."
> >
> > I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
reversibility.

> >
> >
> > Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.  
>
> Uh, I'll look at the question later.  But, I just received some Spam
> from Wolfram today:
>
> > Now's the time to get your own NKS book and software or get them
> > for a friend. We're happy to announce two special holiday
> > promotions:
> >
> > * Stephen Wolfram's 1200-page, 1000-illustration book A NEW KIND
> > OF SCIENCE is available for only US $29.95 (33% discount outside
> > the US)
> >
> > * A NEW KIND OF SCIENCE and the NKS Explorer software system for
> > Windows and Macintosh are available together for only US $49.95
> > (55% discount outside the US)
> >
> > Order today to ensure delivery in time for the holidays.
> >
> > Visit http://www.wolframscience.com or call 1-800-965-3726
> > ([phone] outside the US and Canada).
>
> Actually, it's not technically Spam since I did have to register to look
> at the online copy of NKS.  Anyway, the book is $44.95 at Amazon, and
> the Explorer bundle is $95.  If you've been waiting for the right price,
> I think it's here.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:17:55 -0500
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [FRIAM] Ride to SFI
> To: "Friam" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi, all,
>
> Is anybody going up the hill to the Temple at five this afternoon or
> tomorrow at noon?  Is that person passing near the railyards on there way
> there.  Would that person consider giving me a ride?
>
> Nick
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>  [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:42:27 -0700
> From: "Robert Holmes" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [FRIAM] wolframspam
> To: "FRIAM" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm curious. Can one actually *do* anything with this new science? Y'know,
> like accurately model phenomena, or us it to make predictions or any of

that

> stuff that the boring old science can do?
>
> - rh
>
> Dr. Robert Holmes
>  
> PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
> mobile: [phone]
> web: www.holmesacosta.com
>
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>
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>
>
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> ************************************

[Owen Densmore]

I must confess an admiration for someone who'd go through all those
words and wonderful graphs to discuss a new way of doing things.

It sparks one of my favorite concerns: the division between computing
and mathematics.  I'm somewhat embarrassed that my field of choice has
not done a particularly good job of uniting mathematics and computation
other than time to completion.  Why can't I take a derivative of an
algorithm, so to speak?  Why are there no symbolic systems that nicely
unify math/comp?

One effort I like is the J programming system that has taken a stab at
it.  They feel the language itself should have a meta representation
that can be manipulated by the language itself.  Thus they combine
highly symbolic notions of computation along with having the language
be able to be manipulated by itself.

This reveals an interesting issue amongst computer formalists: should
we investigate the computation machines or should we focus on language?
  Which better represent computations?  I'm a language kinda guy.

Owen

[Owen Densmore]

Forgot to include this .. of the machine oriented approaches, I find
Jim Cruchfield's old Computational Mechanics group at SFI looking at
pretty interesting things:
   http://www.santafe.edu/~cmg/

On Dec 9, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> I must confess an admiration for someone who'd go through all those
> words and wonderful graphs to discuss a new way of doing things.
>
> It sparks one of my favorite concerns: the division between computing
> and mathematics.  I'm somewhat embarrassed that my field of choice has
> not done a particularly good job of uniting mathematics and
> computation other than time to completion.  Why can't I take a
> derivative of an algorithm, so to speak?  Why are there no symbolic
> systems that nicely unify math/comp?
>
> One effort I like is the J programming system that has taken a stab at
> it.  They feel the language itself should have a meta representation
> that can be manipulated by the language itself.  Thus they combine
> highly symbolic notions of computation along with having the language
> be able to be manipulated by itself.
>
> This reveals an interesting issue amongst computer formalists: should
> we investigate the computation machines or should we focus on
> language?  Which better represent computations?  I'm a language kinda
> guy.
>
> Owen

[Stephen Guerin]

Nick writes:

> "If simple laws", the argument runs, "are capable of producing disorderly
> effects through small changes in the initial conditions on which
> they work, then aren't our attempts to discover the laws that govern our
> complex world hopeless.

It seems that statement conflates Complexity with Chaos. I might revise the
statement in terms of Complexity as:

"Simple laws of interactions of initially random components are capable of
producing spontaneous complex order".

Granted, these same systems can be tuned to chaotic regimes, but I don't see
why that makes explaining complex order with complexity as necessarily
hopeless. It just means that, in addition to describing the interaction
laws, you also have the secondary task of characterizing the phase space
that separates the ordered from the chaotic (basins of attraction). And in
fact, knowing this phase space allows you to make a lot of testable
predictions...

-Steve
____________________________________________________
http://www.redfish.com    [hidden email]
624 Agua Fria Street      office: [phone]
Santa Fe, NM 87501        mobile: [phone]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Thompson [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [FRIAM] Assuredy Dr. Holmes (Re Wolfram)
>
>
> Well, I have only been a Wolfram nut for a week now, so the rest of you
> have a head start on me, but....
>
> It seems to me you can do anything with it you can do with a metaphor, and
> to me, metaphors are EVERYTHING in science. (But I come from a part of
> science (evolutionary stuff) where the role of a metaphor is dramatically
> obvious).
>
> My fear a bout Wolfram (and complexity theory in general) is its
> use as the
> foundation for antiscientific irrationalism.
>
> "If simple laws", the argument runs, "are capable of producing disorderly
> effects through small changes in the initial conditions on which
> they work,
> then aren't our attempts to discover the laws that govern our
> complex world
> hopeless.  And if hopeless for their stated purposes, then what are our
> REAL purposes is seeking lawful relations in nature.   After all,
> isn't the
> pursuit of knowledge just an unseemly mix of ideology and self
> aggrandizement?"
>
> Darwinism is either
>
> 1. An attempt on the part of the devil to subjugate Christianity
>
> 2. An attempt on the part of men to subjugate women
>
> 3. An attempt on the part of the ruling classes to
> subjugate the workers.
>
> 4. All of the above.
>
> (Pick one)
>
> NIck
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>  [hidden email]
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Date: 12/9/2004 11:00:19 AM
> > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8
> >
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore) (Nicholas Thompson)
> >    2. A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
> >       (Nicholas Thompson)
> >    3. Re: A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
> >       (Roger E Critchlow Jr)
> >    4. Ride to SFI (Nicholas Thompson)
> >    5. wolframspam (Robert Holmes)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:08:07 -0500
> > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > Owen,
> >
> > In Re Paul Bloom, can our friendship tolerate a rant concerning Paul
> Bloom?
> >
> > !@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&^%$%&*(
> >
> > There, I said it.
> >
> > Now, on a more reasoned note.
> >
> > Consider the following argument:
> >
> > Lightning is either
> >
> > Thor's anger visited upon the earth
> >
> > or
> >
> > Just an electrical discharge.
> >
> > We know that lightning is more than just an electrical discharge.
> >
> > Therefore it must be Thor's anger visited upon the earth.
> >
> > compare that with
> >
> > The soul is either
> >
> > an ephemeral, unmeasurable, insubstantial substance that
> however guides
> > our material being
> >
> > or
> >
> > just a chunk of gunk somewhere North of the Optic Chiasm
> >
> > We know that the soul is not just a chunk of gunk somewhere
> North of the
> > Optic Chiasm
> >
> > THEREFORE, it must be an ephemeral, unmeasurable,
> insubstantial substance
> > that however guides our material being
> >
> > Paul Bloom!!!!  <mutter, mutter, snarl, snarl>
> >
> >
> > Is WEDSTECH happening to day?
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> > Clark University
> > [hidden email]
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> >  [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <[hidden email]>
> > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > Date: 12/8/2004 11:00:23 AM
> > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
> > >
> > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Owen Densmore)
> > >    2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
> > >    3. RE: HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Gus Koehler)
> > >    4. Re: Brain grown from rat cells flies jet (Mike Kruchoski)
> > >    5. Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Owen Densmore)
> > >    6. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Tim Densmore)
> > >    7. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Fred Seibel)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:22:15 -0700
> > > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
> > >    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:45:02 -0700
> > > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Interesting discussion on "dualism" via development psycology:
> > >    http://www.edge.org/video/56k/bloom.html
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:58:31 -0800
> > > From: "Gus Koehler" <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <000101c4dc7d$fbde5050$6401a8c0@VALUEDD3F7D0D1>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > Check out this web site which provides a different view of Darwin:
> > > http://thedarwinproject.com/about/about.html
> > >
> > > Loye has a book, downloads, and CD available that identifies where
> Darwin
> > > discusses cooperative values.
> > >
> > >  http://thedarwinproject.com/library/library.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Gus
> > >
> > > Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> > > Principal
> > > Time Structures
> > > 1545 University Ave.
> > > Sacramento, CA 95826
> > > 916-564-8683
> > > Fax: [phone]
> > > www.timestructures.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of Owen Densmore
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:22 AM
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
> > >
> > > Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
> > >    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > http://www.friam.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 10:41:36 -0700
> > > From: Mike Kruchoski <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Brain grown from rat cells flies jet
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207103646.02314598@192.168.1.155>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Yeah, the problem was it could only fly through a maze to find the
> cheese.
> > >
> > > However, the real concern is: Can they commission them as Air Force
> > pilots???
> > >
> > > At 08:15 AM 12/6/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Wow
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ><http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05/
> wbrain05.x
> >
> ml>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05
> /wbrain05.
> > xml
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Dr. Robert Holmes
> > > >
> > > >PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
> > > >mobile: [phone]
> > > >web: <file://www.holmesacosta.com>www.holmesacosta.com
> > > >============================================================
> > > >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > >Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > >Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > >http://www.friam.org
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > >    Mike Kruchoski
> > >    Mission Research Corporation
> > >    Albuquerque, NM
> > >
> > >    505-768-7630 (phone)
> > >    505-768-7601 (fax)
> > >    505-480-5000 (cell)
> > >    505-853-6525 (ABL SPO)
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 5
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:51:29 -0700
> > > From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> > >
> > > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check
> the links
> > > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > > McKay book.
> > >    http://techbooksforfree.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 6
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:31:06 -0700
> > > From: Tim Densmore <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Not specifically tech related, but this as an absolutely
> wonderful site.
> > > http://promo.net/pg/
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> > >
> > > > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > > > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the
> links
> > > > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > > > McKay book.
> > > >   http://techbooksforfree.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================
> > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > > http://www.friam.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 7
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:49:41 -0700
> > > From: Fred Seibel <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Have to brag a bit--the author of Practical Common Lisp, the 4th item
> > > at the mentioned site, is my son.
> > >
> > > It also seems that when you google "common lisp book" his site comes
> > > back at the top.
> > >
> > > One of these days it will be published and will cost money in
> hardcopy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > > On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> > >
> > > > We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
> > > > interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the
> links
> > > > on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
> > > > McKay book.
> > > >   http://techbooksforfree.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================
> > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > > http://www.friam.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Friam mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > >
> > >
> > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
> > > ************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:45:22 -0500
> > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Cc: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>, stephen <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > All,
> >
> > So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.
> >
> > I have passed through the four stages
> >
> > "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT
> SERIOUSLY."
> >
> > I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
> reversibility.
> >
> >
> > Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.
> >
> > Lets define a rule and a set of conditions on which that rule
> works to be
> a
> > reflector when the rule give back the set of conditions that were given
> it.
> >
> >
> > Obviously there are some boring reflectors.
> >
> > But just as obviously for a CA to be reversible in Wolfram's terms, it
> has,
> > at some point to hit a reflector, no?
> >
> > Allow me to manufacture some nomenclature here.
> >
> > Let the array produced by a rule from  S-0 ("step 0")  be S+1.
>   So when
> > we apply a rule to S-0 we get S+1, OK.
> >
> > In short hand  R(S-0) = S+1  Ok?  (the rule applied to S-0
> gives you S+1.
>
> >
> >
> > For a CA to be reversible, must it not be the case that FOR
> ever value of
> S
> > except the reflector
> >
> > R(S+1) = (S-0) ?
> >
> > In English, must it not be the case for every step in a
> reversible CA that
> > not only does the rule, when applied to the previous step, produce the
> next
> > step, but that the rule when applied to the next step, produces the
> > previous step.
> >
> > Since we know already that the rule when applied to the next
> step produces
> > the NEXT TO NEXT step, there must be something about  the rules of
> > reversible CA;s that prevent all steps from being relfectors.
> >
> > I have totally lost it, havent I?
> >
> > NIck
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> > Clark University
> > [hidden email]
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> >  [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:01:25 -0700
> > From: Roger E Critchlow Jr <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's
> > court
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > > So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.
> > >
> > > I have passed through the four stages
> > >
> > > "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT
> SERIOUSLY."
> > >
> > > I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
> reversibility.
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.
> >
> > Uh, I'll look at the question later.  But, I just received some Spam
> > from Wolfram today:
> >
> > > Now's the time to get your own NKS book and software or get them
> > > for a friend. We're happy to announce two special holiday
> > > promotions:
> > >
> > > * Stephen Wolfram's 1200-page, 1000-illustration book A NEW KIND
> > > OF SCIENCE is available for only US $29.95 (33% discount outside
> > > the US)
> > >
> > > * A NEW KIND OF SCIENCE and the NKS Explorer software system for
> > > Windows and Macintosh are available together for only US $49.95
> > > (55% discount outside the US)
> > >
> > > Order today to ensure delivery in time for the holidays.
> > >
> > > Visit http://www.wolframscience.com or call 1-800-965-3726
> > > ([phone] outside the US and Canada).
> >
> > Actually, it's not technically Spam since I did have to
> register to look
> > at the online copy of NKS.  Anyway, the book is $44.95 at Amazon, and
> > the Explorer bundle is $95.  If you've been waiting for the
> right price,
> > I think it's here.
> >
> > -- rec --
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:17:55 -0500
> > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] Ride to SFI
> > To: "Friam" <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > Hi, all,
> >
> > Is anybody going up the hill to the Temple at five this afternoon or
> > tomorrow at noon?  Is that person passing near the railyards on
> there way
> > there.  Would that person consider giving me a ride?
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> > Clark University
> > [hidden email]
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> >  [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:42:27 -0700
> > From: "Robert Holmes" <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] wolframspam
> > To: "FRIAM" <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I'm curious. Can one actually *do* anything with this new
> science? Y'know,
> > like accurately model phenomena, or us it to make predictions or any of
> that
> > stuff that the boring old science can do?
> >
> > - rh
> >
> > Dr. Robert Holmes
> >
> > PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
> > mobile: [phone]
> > web: www.holmesacosta.com
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> /pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20041208/d96e40da/attachment.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8
> > ************************************
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> http://www.friam.org
>
>

[Dan Kunkle]

I think Steve put it nicely here. It's not hopeless. Though it can be  
very hard to characterize the phase space of a system and define what  
parameters can separate your system into classes like  
simple/complex/chaotic. Once we find what these "good" parameters are  
we can start talking about what values of those parameters produce what  
behaviors.

CAs provide a good area to explore these ideas. You can see my master's  
thesis " Automatically Classifying One-Dimensional Cellular Automata"  
at:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kunkle/msthesis/

-Dan

On Dec 9, 2004, at 14:38, Stephen Guerin wrote:

> Nick writes:
>
>> "If simple laws", the argument runs, "are capable of producing  
>> disorderly
>> effects through small changes in the initial conditions on which
>> they work, then aren't our attempts to discover the laws that govern  
>> our
>> complex world hopeless.
>
> It seems that statement conflates Complexity with Chaos. I might  
> revise the
> statement in terms of Complexity as:
>
> "Simple laws of interactions of initially random components are  
> capable of
> producing spontaneous complex order".
>
> Granted, these same systems can be tuned to chaotic regimes, but I  
> don't see
> why that makes explaining complex order with complexity as necessarily
> hopeless. It just means that, in addition to describing the interaction
> laws, you also have the secondary task of characterizing the phase  
> space
> that separates the ordered from the chaotic (basins of attraction).  
> And in
> fact, knowing this phase space allows you to make a lot of testable
> predictions...
>
> -Steve
> ____________________________________________________
> http://www.redfish.com    [hidden email]
> 624 Agua Fria Street      office: [phone]
> Santa Fe, NM 87501        mobile: [phone]
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nicholas Thompson [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:25 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [FRIAM] Assuredy Dr. Holmes (Re Wolfram)
>>
>>
>> Well, I have only been a Wolfram nut for a week now, so the rest of  
>> you
>> have a head start on me, but....
>>
>> It seems to me you can do anything with it you can do with a  
>> metaphor, and
>> to me, metaphors are EVERYTHING in science. (But I come from a part of
>> science (evolutionary stuff) where the role of a metaphor is  
>> dramatically
>> obvious).
>>
>> My fear a bout Wolfram (and complexity theory in general) is its
>> use as the
>> foundation for antiscientific irrationalism.
>>
>> "If simple laws", the argument runs, "are capable of producing  
>> disorderly
>> effects through small changes in the initial conditions on which
>> they work,
>> then aren't our attempts to discover the laws that govern our
>> complex world
>> hopeless.  And if hopeless for their stated purposes, then what are  
>> our
>> REAL purposes is seeking lawful relations in nature.   After all,
>> isn't the
>> pursuit of knowledge just an unseemly mix of ideology and self
>> aggrandizement?"
>>
>> Darwinism is either
>>
>> 1. An attempt on the part of the devil to subjugate Christianity
>>
>> 2. An attempt on the part of men to subjugate women
>>
>> 3. An attempt on the part of the ruling classes to
>> subjugate the workers.
>>
>> 4. All of the above.
>>
>> (Pick one)
>>
>> NIck
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
>> Clark University
>> [hidden email]
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>>  [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: 12/9/2004 11:00:19 AM
>>> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8
>>>
>>> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore) (Nicholas Thompson)
>>>    2. A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
>>>       (Nicholas Thompson)
>>>    3. Re: A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
>>>       (Roger E Critchlow Jr)
>>>    4. Ride to SFI (Nicholas Thompson)
>>>    5. wolframspam (Robert Holmes)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:08:07 -0500
>>> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] 2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> Owen,
>>>
>>> In Re Paul Bloom, can our friendship tolerate a rant concerning Paul
>> Bloom?
>>>
>>> !@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&^%$%&*(
>>>
>>> There, I said it.
>>>
>>> Now, on a more reasoned note.
>>>
>>> Consider the following argument:
>>>
>>> Lightning is either
>>>
>>> Thor's anger visited upon the earth
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> Just an electrical discharge.
>>>
>>> We know that lightning is more than just an electrical discharge.
>>>
>>> Therefore it must be Thor's anger visited upon the earth.
>>>
>>> compare that with
>>>
>>> The soul is either
>>>
>>> an ephemeral, unmeasurable, insubstantial substance that
>> however guides
>>> our material being
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> just a chunk of gunk somewhere North of the Optic Chiasm
>>>
>>> We know that the soul is not just a chunk of gunk somewhere
>> North of the
>>> Optic Chiasm
>>>
>>> THEREFORE, it must be an ephemeral, unmeasurable,
>> insubstantial substance
>>> that however guides our material being
>>>
>>> Paul Bloom!!!!  <mutter, mutter, snarl, snarl>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is WEDSTECH happening to day?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
>>> Clark University
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: 12/8/2004 11:00:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
>>>>
>>>> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>    1. HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Owen Densmore)
>>>>    2. EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM (Owen Densmore)
>>>>    3. RE: HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation (Gus Koehler)
>>>>    4. Re: Brain grown from rat cells flies jet (Mike Kruchoski)
>>>>    5. Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Owen Densmore)
>>>>    6. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Tim Densmore)
>>>>    7. Re: Free Programming and Computer Science Books (Fred Seibel)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:22:15 -0700
>>>> From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
>>>>    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:45:02 -0700
>>>> From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] EdgeVideo: PAUL BLOOM
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Interesting discussion on "dualism" via development psycology:
>>>>    http://www.edge.org/video/56k/bloom.html
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:58:31 -0800
>>>> From: "Gus Koehler" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: RE: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
>>>> To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <000101c4dc7d$fbde5050$6401a8c0@VALUEDD3F7D0D1>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>> Check out this web site which provides a different view of Darwin:
>>>> http://thedarwinproject.com/about/about.html
>>>>
>>>> Loye has a book, downloads, and CD available that identifies where
>> Darwin
>>>> discusses cooperative values.
>>>>
>>>>  http://thedarwinproject.com/library/library.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gus
>>>>
>>>> Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
>>>> Principal
>>>> Time Structures
>>>> 1545 University Ave.
>>>> Sacramento, CA 95826
>>>> 916-564-8683
>>>> Fax: [phone]
>>>> www.timestructures.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]  
>>>> On
>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Owen Densmore
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:22 AM
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] HUM 202 -- Toward a Literacy of Cooperation
>>>>
>>>> Interesting class at Stanford.  Note Howard Rheingold's presence:
>>>>    http://shl.stanford.edu/hum202.html
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
>>>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>> http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 10:41:36 -0700
>>>> From: Mike Kruchoski <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Brain grown from rat cells flies jet
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041207103646.02314598@192.168.1.155>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, the problem was it could only fly through a maze to find the
>> cheese.
>>>>
>>>> However, the real concern is: Can they commission them as Air Force
>>> pilots???
>>>>
>>>> At 08:15 AM 12/6/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05/
>> wbrain05.x
>>>
>> ml>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05
>> /wbrain05.
>>> xml
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Robert Holmes
>>>>>
>>>>> PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
>>>>> mobile: [phone]
>>>>> web: <file://www.holmesacosta.com>www.holmesacosta.com
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
>>>>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>>> http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>    Mike Kruchoski
>>>>    Mission Research Corporation
>>>>    Albuquerque, NM
>>>>
>>>>    505-768-7630 (phone)
>>>>    505-768-7601 (fax)
>>>>    505-480-5000 (cell)
>>>>    505-853-6525 (ABL SPO)
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:51:29 -0700
>>>> From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
>>>> interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check
>> the links
>>>> on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
>>>> McKay book.
>>>>    http://techbooksforfree.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 6
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:31:06 -0700
>>>> From: Tim Densmore <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Not specifically tech related, but this as an absolutely
>> wonderful site.
>>>> http://promo.net/pg/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
>>>>> interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the
>> links
>>>>> on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
>>>>> McKay book.
>>>>>   http://techbooksforfree.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
>>>>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>>> http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 7
>>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:49:41 -0700
>>>> From: Fred Seibel <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free Programming and Computer Science Books
>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Have to brag a bit--the author of Practical Common Lisp, the 4th  
>>>> item
>>>> at the mentioned site, is my son.
>>>>
>>>> It also seems that when you google "common lisp book" his site comes
>>>> back at the top.
>>>>
>>>> One of these days it will be published and will cost money in
>> hardcopy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 7, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We've often discussed downloadable books and articles. This is an
>>>>> interesting site devoted to free, downloadable books.  Check the
>> links
>>>>> on the right side of the page too.  I sent them an email about the
>>>>> McKay book.
>>>>>   http://techbooksforfree.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
>>>>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>>> http://www.friam.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Friam mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 7
>>>> ************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:45:22 -0500
>>> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's court
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>, stephen  
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.
>>>
>>> I have passed through the four stages
>>>
>>> "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT
>> SERIOUSLY."
>>>
>>> I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
>> reversibility.
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.
>>>
>>> Lets define a rule and a set of conditions on which that rule
>> works to be
>> a
>>> reflector when the rule give back the set of conditions that were  
>>> given
>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously there are some boring reflectors.
>>>
>>> But just as obviously for a CA to be reversible in Wolfram's terms,  
>>> it
>> has,
>>> at some point to hit a reflector, no?
>>>
>>> Allow me to manufacture some nomenclature here.
>>>
>>> Let the array produced by a rule from  S-0 ("step 0")  be S+1.
>>   So when
>>> we apply a rule to S-0 we get S+1, OK.
>>>
>>> In short hand  R(S-0) = S+1  Ok?  (the rule applied to S-0
>> gives you S+1.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For a CA to be reversible, must it not be the case that FOR
>> ever value of
>> S
>>> except the reflector
>>>
>>> R(S+1) = (S-0) ?
>>>
>>> In English, must it not be the case for every step in a
>> reversible CA that
>>> not only does the rule, when applied to the previous step, produce  
>>> the
>> next
>>> step, but that the rule when applied to the next step, produces the
>>> previous step.
>>>
>>> Since we know already that the rule when applied to the next
>> step produces
>>> the NEXT TO NEXT step, there must be something about  the rules of
>>> reversible CA;s that prevent all steps from being relfectors.
>>>
>>> I have totally lost it, havent I?
>>>
>>> NIck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
>>> Clark University
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:01:25 -0700
>>> From: Roger E Critchlow Jr <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Massachusetts Psychologist in King Wolfram's
>>> court
>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> So,  I have gotten to page 541 of A NEW SCIENCE.
>>>>
>>>> I have passed through the four stages
>>>>
>>>> "WHA?"    "HUH!"     "OMIGOD"   and finally," I HAVE TO TAKE IT
>> SERIOUSLY."
>>>>
>>>> I am right now bogged down in the part on thermodynamics and
>> reversibility.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you CA folks out there could help me with a question.
>>>
>>> Uh, I'll look at the question later.  But, I just received some Spam
>>> from Wolfram today:
>>>
>>>> Now's the time to get your own NKS book and software or get them
>>>> for a friend. We're happy to announce two special holiday
>>>> promotions:
>>>>
>>>> * Stephen Wolfram's 1200-page, 1000-illustration book A NEW KIND
>>>> OF SCIENCE is available for only US $29.95 (33% discount outside
>>>> the US)
>>>>
>>>> * A NEW KIND OF SCIENCE and the NKS Explorer software system for
>>>> Windows and Macintosh are available together for only US $49.95
>>>> (55% discount outside the US)
>>>>
>>>> Order today to ensure delivery in time for the holidays.
>>>>
>>>> Visit http://www.wolframscience.com or call 1-800-965-3726
>>>> ([phone] outside the US and Canada).
>>>
>>> Actually, it's not technically Spam since I did have to
>> register to look
>>> at the online copy of NKS.  Anyway, the book is $44.95 at Amazon, and
>>> the Explorer bundle is $95.  If you've been waiting for the
>> right price,
>>> I think it's here.
>>>
>>> -- rec --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:17:55 -0500
>>> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] Ride to SFI
>>> To: "Friam" <[hidden email]>
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> Hi, all,
>>>
>>> Is anybody going up the hill to the Temple at five this afternoon or
>>> tomorrow at noon?  Is that person passing near the railyards on
>> there way
>>> there.  Would that person consider giving me a ride?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
>>> Clark University
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:42:27 -0700
>>> From: "Robert Holmes" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] wolframspam
>>> To: "FRIAM" <[hidden email]>
>>> Message-ID:  
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> I'm curious. Can one actually *do* anything with this new
>> science? Y'know,
>>> like accurately model phenomena, or us it to make predictions or any  
>>> of
>> that
>>> stuff that the boring old science can do?
>>>
>>> - rh
>>>
>>> Dr. Robert Holmes
>>>
>>> PO Box 2862, Santa Fe, NM 87504
>>> mobile: [phone]
>>> web: www.holmesacosta.com
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL:
>> /pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20041208/d96e40da/
>> attachment.htm
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Friam mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Friam Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8
>>> ************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>> http://www.friam.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> http://www.friam.org
>
>