Anyone from England
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Care to speculate what's going on with this leave the EU thing?
I can guess but I might be wrong, I suppose I thought while the EU comes across as a discuntional family. I didn't know drama between England and the rest of Europe was so bad that they'd want to leave. places like telegraph aren't exactly helping matters: So anyone from England have some opinions about what's going on? Also as it is reported in America it's a close call of 48 to 50% unless I totally misunderstand parimentarian best practices I thought that's when they called for another vote or a simple majority? Or am I wrong? More importantly can I still move there if a certain delusional Sith think's he can do some good?not a sith lord, just a sith, he's got all the makings of a sith, just not a good one. :P How's the beer and weather? Where's a good place to live? Anyway I hope all everyone has a day full of glory! MUCH MERRIMENT AND REVELRY! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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From what I heard David Cameron messed it up. He failed miserably. In order to get elected and to get rid of his right wing critics he promised the people this referendum where they can vote for or against the EU. If people had voted to remain in the EU it would have been a victory for him. It wasn't. He lost. Most of the "Brexit" voters voted against the EU because they are against immigrants and want to make Britain great again, much like Trump in US. Unfortunately it will not happen, the British Pound will drop, customs will raise and the UK will slide into a recession. EU funding for universities in the UK will stop. It looks pretty bad for Great Britain, as you can see in the reaction of the stock markets. TL;DR Cameron messed it up and everyone in Europe is a bit shocked about the result of the referendum. Regards Jochen Sent from my Tricorder -------- Original message -------- From: Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> Date: 6/24/16 21:23 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: [FRIAM] Anyone from England Care to speculate what's going on with this leave the EU thing?
I can guess but I might be wrong, I suppose I thought while the EU comes across as a discuntional family. I didn't know drama between England and the rest of Europe was so bad that they'd want to leave. places like telegraph aren't exactly helping matters: So anyone from England have some opinions about what's going on? Also as it is reported in America it's a close call of 48 to 50% unless I totally misunderstand parimentarian best practices I thought that's when they called for another vote or a simple majority? Or am I wrong? More importantly can I still move there if a certain delusional Sith think's he can do some good?not a sith lord, just a sith, he's got all the makings of a sith, just not a good one. :P How's the beer and weather? Where's a good place to live? Anyway I hope all everyone has a day full of glory! MUCH MERRIMENT AND REVELRY! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Anyone from England
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In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSTEACxuEmM On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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[ SPAM ] Re: Anyone from England
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
From an ol-ex-pat... I listened to BBC World Service live on my iPhone app with mounting surprise as the returns showed the Leave solidifying their gains. I agree Cameron gambled and lost. I can sympathize with some resentment towards the 'faceless' bureaucrats in Brussels making fine-grained and annoying regulations but was surprised that the immigration issue struck such a chord among what appears to be mostly the working class. And these immigrants are mostly Caucasian Eastern Europeans. But Britain was never so tightly integrated as other member
countries who adopted the Euro currency. So the challenge to
British identity, the Pound, and possibly the Crown eventually
became too much for the man and woman on the street. I suspect Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to Remain because a) the immigration issue isn't really there there and they received a lot of Euro funding for social/infrastructure projects while Britain as a whole was a net contributor. A US parallel might be Texas seceding from the Union. Some numbers from
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm
So there's over €4 Billion/yr off the bat to be gained by leaving
before taking trade & employment impacts into account which
are predicted to be dire, only no country has done this before so
there's no basis for predications. Robert C On 6/25/16 1:46 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
-- Cirrillian Web Design & Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) Member Design Corps of Santa Fe ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
Boy, Howdy, did Cameron Mess up! So, he now loses his premiership to the right wing of his own party. Scotland, and perhaps N. Ireland, will now opt out of the UK in a few years, leaving England a teensy libertarian paradise under Boris Johnson. Gill, here is how I think the parliamentary system works. Cameron resigns. That precipitates an election for party leader amongst the conservatives. If that goes smoothly, there is no election. If that is bloody, and some faction of the Conservatives is willing to join Labor in a vote of no confidence, THAT will precipitate an election. Parliament is sovereign in the UK. So, a new parliament could do anything it wanted, including, presumably, not leave the EU. I think that’s how it is. I would love to be corrected. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm From what I heard David Cameron messed it up. He failed miserably. In order to get elected and to get rid of his right wing critics he promised the people this referendum where they can vote for or against the EU. If people had voted to remain in the EU it would have been a victory for him. It wasn't. He lost. Most of the "Brexit" voters voted against the EU because they are against immigrants and want to make Britain great again, much like Trump in US. Unfortunately it will not happen, the British Pound will drop, customs will raise and the UK will slide into a recession. EU funding for universities in the UK will stop. It looks pretty bad for Great Britain, as you can see in the reaction of the stock markets. TL;DR Cameron messed it up and everyone in Europe is a bit shocked about the result of the referendum. Regards Jochen Sent from my Tricorder -------- Original message -------- From: Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> Date: 6/24/16 21:23 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: [FRIAM] Anyone from England Care to speculate what's going on with this leave the EU thing? I can guess but I might be wrong, I suppose I thought while the EU comes across as a discuntional family. I didn't know drama between England and the rest of Europe was so bad that they'd want to leave. places like telegraph aren't exactly helping matters: So anyone from England have some opinions about what's going on? Also as it is reported in America it's a close call of 48 to 50% unless I totally misunderstand parimentarian best practices I thought that's when they called for another vote or a simple majority? Or am I wrong? More importantly can I still move there if a certain delusional Sith think's he can do some good?not a sith lord, just a sith, he's got all the makings of a sith, just not a good one. :P How's the beer and weather? Where's a good place to live? Anyway I hope all everyone has a day full of glory! MUCH MERRIMENT AND REVELRY! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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According to Ali Velshi on CNN, people voted "leave" to express their anger (elites, immigration, economy) without actually understanding what they were voting for. The London Times published a list of the consequences and now over 2 million people have signed a petition calling for a revote. Frank Frank Wimberly On Jun 25, 2016 1:59 PM, "Nick Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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From what I've read, young people overwhelmingly voted to stay. Unfortunately, if the exit is indeed bad from Great Britain, those same young people have to live with the consequences for the longest. Sometimes, I think that people should be given more than one vote, the number of votes being inversely proportional to age. Of course, that devalues any wisdom that may have accumulated by living long (perhaps not displayed in this vote). In any case, I hope they do decide to have a second referendum, following an open, vigorous debate on the issues that divide the people. On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Our colleagues, Matt and Janire just skyped me up yesterday and were quite concerned about the implications for them... Matt is from the UK, Janire from Spain, and they both attended
University in Wales and have been doing good business throughout
UK/EU/etc without any friction, thanks to the UK participation in
the EU. They are now very concerned that they will be
significantly constrained by the new situation. They are also very unhappy with the general right-wing knee-jerk in progress (from their perspective) that htey feel rivals our own "Trumped up" stuff. INteresting times! On 6/25/16 2:39 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
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In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5
Anybody – I am sorry – my message confounded an internal conservative party election with a national parliamentary election. The question I thought gill was asking was, “Shouldn’t this crisis lead to a dissolution of parliament?” The answer is, not unless a significant minority of the Conservative party votes against its new chosen leader. One surprising event today was the demand by EU leaders that the UK invoke article 50 immediately. Does anybody know why they are doing that? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Nick Thompson [mailto:[hidden email]] Boy, Howdy, did Cameron Mess up! So, he now loses his premiership to the right wing of his own party. Scotland, and perhaps N. Ireland, will now opt out of the UK in a few years, leaving England a teensy libertarian paradise under Boris Johnson. Gill, here is how I think the parliamentary system works. Cameron resigns. That precipitates an election for party leader amongst the conservatives. If that goes smoothly, there is no election. If that is bloody, and some faction of the Conservatives is willing to join Labor in a vote of no confidence, THAT will precipitate an election. Parliament is sovereign in the UK. So, a new parliament could do anything it wanted, including, presumably, not leave the EU. I think that’s how it is. I would love to be corrected. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm From what I heard David Cameron messed it up. He failed miserably. In order to get elected and to get rid of his right wing critics he promised the people this referendum where they can vote for or against the EU. If people had voted to remain in the EU it would have been a victory for him. It wasn't. He lost. Most of the "Brexit" voters voted against the EU because they are against immigrants and want to make Britain great again, much like Trump in US. Unfortunately it will not happen, the British Pound will drop, customs will raise and the UK will slide into a recession. EU funding for universities in the UK will stop. It looks pretty bad for Great Britain, as you can see in the reaction of the stock markets. TL;DR Cameron messed it up and everyone in Europe is a bit shocked about the result of the referendum. Regards Jochen Sent from my Tricorder -------- Original message -------- From: Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> Date: 6/24/16 21:23 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: [FRIAM] Anyone from England Care to speculate what's going on with this leave the EU thing? I can guess but I might be wrong, I suppose I thought while the EU comes across as a discuntional family. I didn't know drama between England and the rest of Europe was so bad that they'd want to leave. places like telegraph aren't exactly helping matters: So anyone from England have some opinions about what's going on? Also as it is reported in America it's a close call of 48 to 50% unless I totally misunderstand parimentarian best practices I thought that's when they called for another vote or a simple majority? Or am I wrong? More importantly can I still move there if a certain delusional Sith think's he can do some good?not a sith lord, just a sith, he's got all the makings of a sith, just not a good one. :P How's the beer and weather? Where's a good place to live? Anyway I hope all everyone has a day full of glory! MUCH MERRIMENT AND REVELRY! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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They're annoyed (pissed) but the latest news was that Merkel said "not so fast". Frank Wimberly On Jun 25, 2016 7:30 PM, "Nick Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Thanks, frank. I will look for that. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly They're annoyed (pissed) but the latest news was that Merkel said "not so fast". Frank Wimberly On Jun 25, 2016 7:30 PM, "Nick Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Frank Wimberly On Jun 25, 2016 7:53 PM, "Nick Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
The NY Times has a nice overview how Britain has voted in detail http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/24/world/europe/how-britain-voted-brexit-referendum.html Regards Jochen Sent from my Tricorder -------- Original message -------- From: Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> Date: 6/26/16 04:39 (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Anyone from England Frank Wimberly On Jun 25, 2016 7:53 PM, "Nick Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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From Tom Wilkinson on Facebook. I assume he's English: There are a few camps here. Second are the people who voted on the basis of personality. A major campaigner on the Leave side, Nigel Farage, projects himself as a man of the people (he's rarely seen in publicity photos without a pint of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other). They didn't really grasp what it was they were voting for and now they've seen the numbers and seen how the rest of the world has reacted, have come to their senses. Boris Johnson, the other major Leave personality is well known too for being a bit of a breath of fresh air (He's the former Mayor of London, and could be described as "Colourful" - again, a different kind of politician) The third group (and the only one I have any sympathy with) are the people who genuinely thought Leave was the right thing to do after weighing up the options, and who have now seen a huge upsurge in racist incidents/ violence from the extreme racist right wing who took the leave vote as an endorsement of their extreme views. On Jun 26, 2016 5:11 AM, "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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What I don't quite understand is, if referenda are "consultative" and non-binding, why all the hoopla? Why can't they simply factor the results into a more rational process? This is especially curious if Cameron plans to/will resign anyway. And also curious given the Bregret. Did the pre-referendum legislation dictate that the government must robotically obey the results? We have all sorts of ways our US government can bypass, ignore, or delay the unencumbered "will of the people." -- ☢ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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It’s not a legally binding vote but Cameron has both resigned (as of October) and said he will honor the vote.
Ed _______________________ Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico 1017 Sierra Pinon
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On 06/27/2016 12:54 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> It’s not a legally binding vote but Cameron has both resigned (as of October) and said he will honor the vote. So, he has to file for article 50 because he said he'd file. A politician being bound by his word? That seems even less binding than the referendum. Obviously, there's something deeper at work. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Maybe he wants out and sees this as an opportunity?
Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 [hidden email] [hidden email] Phone: (505) 995-8715 Cell: (505) 670-9918 -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen ? Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 2:22 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Anyone from England On 06/27/2016 12:54 PM, Edward Angel wrote: > It’s not a legally binding vote but Cameron has both resigned (as of October) and said he will honor the vote. So, he has to file for article 50 because he said he'd file. A politician being bound by his word? That seems even less binding than the referendum. Obviously, there's something deeper at work. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Despair wasn't what I was getting from the body language of David and Samantha Cameron. Perhaps kind like Boehner..?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/opinion/sunday/hell-is-other-britons.html -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 2:28 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Anyone from England Maybe he wants out and sees this as an opportunity? Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 [hidden email] [hidden email] Phone: (505) 995-8715 Cell: (505) 670-9918 -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen ? Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 2:22 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Anyone from England On 06/27/2016 12:54 PM, Edward Angel wrote: > It’s not a legally binding vote but Cameron has both resigned (as of October) and said he will honor the vote. So, he has to file for article 50 because he said he'd file. A politician being bound by his word? That seems even less binding than the referendum. Obviously, there's something deeper at work. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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On 06/27/2016 01:59 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Despair wasn't what I was getting from the body language of David and Samantha Cameron. Perhaps kind like Boehner..? I have to admit that I'm interested in the rhetoric that says: We should elect Trump as President because we need to get it out of our system. It's akin to postmodernism. We _need_ to manually walk as far towards the absurd as we can in order to teach ourselves (or some of us) what "absurd" means, tacitly. It's not enough to be warned by those with the ability to run it forward in their heads. Even those brainiacs are susceptible to confirmation bias. So we _need_ to do the work, actually go out into the void as far as possible so we can experience it, memorize it, know what it means ... to, say, have a reality TV personality run the country. Perhaps Cameron has an anarchist homunculus? Just burn it down! Free your mind and ... Burn. It. Down. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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