A fractal question
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A biologist writes me a question about fractals that I cannot answer:
"If a small portion is dissected out of a snowflake and suspended in supersaturated cold air will new water molecules condense on it as a scaffolding and thereby perpetuate the pattern of the snowflake from which the seed was dissected?" Can anyone here answer? "I happen to miss the Constitution; I thought it was a good document." Samantha Power -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 499 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080225/00442721/attachment.bin |
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Samantha,
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/designer1/designer1.htm The evolution of crystalline growth of the water molecule is studied from scientific and aesthetic perspectives. Ken ============================= Kenneth A. Lloyd CEO and Director of Systems Science Watt Systems Technologies Inc. Albuquerque, NM USA kalloyd at wattsys.com kenneth.lloyd at incose.org www.wattsys.com This e-mail is intended only for the addressee named above. It may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the addressee you must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it. If you have received it in error please delete it and immediately notify the sender. _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:09 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] A fractal question A biologist writes me a question about fractals that I cannot answer: "If a small portion is dissected out of a snowflake and suspended in supersaturated cold air will new water molecules condense on it as a scaffolding and thereby perpetuate the pattern of the snowflake from which the seed was dissected?" Can anyone here answer? "I happen to miss the Constitution; I thought it was a good document." Samantha Power -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080225/3b27120b/attachment.html |
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In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck
I believe that that this hypothesis is incorrect. My understanding of
the matter is that the snowflakes form patterns that reflect the current ambient conditions they are encountering. The dominant variables are temperature and humidity. In drier conditions the flake forms more fine-detailed spikey patterns, and in wetter conditions it forms more solid plate-like structures. As a snowflake travels through the atmosphere, it encounters changing temperature and moisture, which result in a varying morphology from the center of the flake outwards. In other words, the structure of each branch of the flake records the history of the atmospheric conditions of its journey. Since no two snowflakes follow the same path in the turbulent swirling of the air... no two snowflakes will have the same shape. It is possible to grow very similar flakes in carefully controlled conditions, as can be seen at http://www.snowcrystals.com, and so the results of the proposed experiment would likely reflect the conditions of the snow-making apparatus more than the structure of the starting seed. Still, it would be interesting to try. I've dissected a lot of things, but never a snowflake! Snowflakes are only pseudo-fractals at best, as they do not typically show much self-similarity beyond one or two orders of branching. But like many fractals, they do embody the chaotic processes that formed them. -Jonathan Wolfe, Ph.D. Executive Director http://www.FractalFoundation.org Next First Friday Fractals show: March 7th Fractals are SMART: Science, Math & Art! On Feb 25, 2008, at 8:08 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: > A biologist writes me a question about fractals that I cannot answer: > > "If a small portion is dissected out of a snowflake and suspended in > supersaturated cold air will new water molecules condense on it as a > scaffolding and thereby perpetuate the pattern of the snowflake from > which the seed was dissected?" > > Can anyone here answer? > > > > > > "I happen to miss the Constitution; I thought it was a good document." > > Samantha > Power============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080225/6dd9c18b/attachment.html |
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> Snowflakes are only pseudo-fractals at best, as they do not typically show
> much self-similarity beyond one or two orders of branching. But like many > fractals, they do embody the chaotic processes that formed them. I think this is correct. -- Giles Bowkett Blog: http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com Portfolio: http://www.gilesgoatboy.org Tumblelog: http://giles.tumblr.com Podcast: http://hollywoodgrit.blogspot.com |
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