Re: The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of Consciousness by Mark Solms
Posted by
thompnickson2 on
Feb 07, 2021; 3:25am
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/The-Hidden-Spring-A-Journey-to-the-Source-of-Consciousness-by-Mark-Solms-tp7600653p7600656.html
Frank,
OOOOOOOOOH. I would like to see the argument that actors simulate emotions. How do you imagine that argument goes? Is that the difference between a Method actor and the other kind?
Frank, while I am bothering you, it suddenly occurred to me that I might send and receive text messages on my computer, and when I looked into the matter, there were a half a dozen apps that promised to do that. I have a crappy little clamshell phone. My need to send text messages is limited to exchanging messages with my “picker” at whole foods.
Nick
Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 8:36 PM
To: [hidden email]; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Hidden Spring: A Journey to the Source of Consciousness by Mark Solms
Back in the 80s Hans Moravec, author of "Mind Children: The Future of AI", and I used to argue constantly about the nature of consciousness. I forwarded Russ' post to him after decades without our communicating. Here is his reply in its entirety.
"Hi Frank,
Surely the position that emotions arise in the cortex is a straw man, I don't
know anyone who argues that. Reasoning rationalizes the drives, doesn't
That doesn't mean a reasoning AI can't someday simulate emotions, like
We worked in the Robotics Institute. Neither of us wastes words apparently.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
From a review by Oliver Burkeman:
Burkeman: Using poignant case studies of neurology patients – including children born with brain damage, yet plainly still capable of sadness and joy – [Solms] argues persuasively that consciousness ultimately arises not in the cortex, the seat of advanced intelligence, but in the more primitive brainstem, where basic emotions begin.
Russ: In other words, consciousness exists far down the tree of life.
Burkeman: To the best of my understanding, the gist [of the book] is that feelings are a uniquely effective and efficient way for humans to monitor their countless changing biological needs, in extremely unpredictable environments, to set priorities for action and make the best choices so as to remain within various bounds – of hunger, cold and heat, physical danger, social isolation, etc – outside of which we can’t survive for long. Doing all that without feelings, and doing it as rapidly as survival requires, would take so many computational resources that it would lead to a “combinatorial explosion”, demanding levels of energy a human could never muster.
Here's Nick Lane's blurb on Amazon: (If you know Nick Lane, you know he is worth listening to.)
"At last the emperor has found some clothes! For decades, consciousness has been perceived as an epiphenomenon, little more than an illusion that can't really make things happen. Solms takes a thrilling new approach to the problem, grounded in modern neurobiology but finding meaning in older ideas going back to Freud. This is an exciting book."
― Nick Lane, author of The Vital Question
-- Russ Abbott
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
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