Right, Marcus. That's where I ended up, too. While I need to IMAGINE that you can understand me, in order to write some of what I write, the fact that you don't, in the short run, doesn't matter. The illusion of you attentively listening has broken many a writer's block. I would hate it if some Good Government A-hole like me would start dictating what could our not appear on FRIAM.
You are in the unenviable position of agreeing with me. (};-\)
However, I do wonder what some of those people would say if we were better at engaging them.
Nick
Nick Thompson
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-----Original Message-----From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Marcus DanielsSent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 4:03 PMTo: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
I'm not sure who you are accusing of what, and it doesn't matter. Fwiw, I suppose I follow a few underlying principles by default, unless I am being paid or whatnot:
1) If someone is motivated to make a point or understand some topic, as there was some indication in some cases, then if some muttering is alien to them, they'll bother to puzzle it out or ask without being petulant about it.
2) The burden is not on the speaker/sharer unless the speaker especially cares that the topic be understood and perhaps acted upon. Say, if the speaker is engaging in political advocacy, or defending some claim where they have some skin in the game.
3) Electrons are cheap to move around and attention can be modulated.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 11:03 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
Well, generally that is the paradox. But the narcissism I am talking about is INTRA group narcissism -- writing a post that one knows damn well only 2 members of the group will understand. We are a sufficiently broad group that I imagine that if we developed a language understood by most of us, it would also be understood by a lot of other people.
But there is value to narcissism that might be lost if we tried to standardize. That you all understand me is an illusion that helps me to write, and when I write, thoughts happen that I did not plan on happening. Even if NONE of you understood, that would be a gain for me. I think many of us write to the list in this delusional way, and I can't claim that that's altogether a Bad Thing.
Nick
Nick Thompson
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 12:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms
IDK, man. This contribution rings a bit hollow. Jargon, insider jokes and words, etc. all serve group cohesion. Coming from Nick, who sporadically talks of FriAM as important *as a group*, including attempts to formulate some threads as coherent presentable things, it seems good, generalized/popularized, communication is antithetic.
But it *does* bode well for treating forum posts as public essays rather than intra-group chatting ... which I've argued is the case. A flaw in my argument, that those who disagree with me have yet to point out, is that despite being publicly available on Nabble, it's not really a public forum. It's not widely read. We *do* use obComplexity jargon just to titillate each other. Etc. Perhaps the biggest obstacle to viewing these posts as public essays is that we don't have a standard set of rules (like Frank's) posts are expected to follow.
So, the classical mathetists among us will argue that you can't have your cake and eat it. Either we're a group of insiders, a tribe, or this is a publication medium which should have some associated rules. Perhaps that's the paradox Nick's after?
On 1/26/21 10:19 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> This correspondence has been an example of it self. Narcissism is the
> enemy of communication.
>
> I suppose there is SOME sense in putting obscurities in email blasts to the list and clasping to your bosom anybody who happens to understand you. (I did that with my recent supervenience post and got one answer that was tremendously helpful) It’s like hitchhiking, then; you only need one ride. But while it makes some sense, as a general strategy of communication, isn’t it a bit pathetic, after all? Isn’t there some paradox in communication that is designed to be exclusive?
--
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