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Re: 5 agencies compromised

Posted by Steve Smith on Dec 19, 2020; 5:09pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/5-agencies-compromised-tp7599853p7599891.html

What about the systems/software aging/rot/refactoring analogy?  The similarities seem more *relevant* to the bulk of this group's experience than, for example, cancer or infectious disease.   Of course, one's familiarity with the source of an analogy does not make it more apt, just simultaneously more seductive and *possibly* more illuminating.  Or perhaps it *is* more apt if/because the mechanisms in source/target domain are more similar?

I have my own issues with the misuse/abuse of analogy/metaphor (seemingly orthogonal or or at least complementary Glen's).

While I don't think Marcus' observation is wrong... there ARE people that are in the way (of various willful intentions) and a share of them ARE in the government...  but as pithy as it is, it begs myriad questions...

Is the only/primary problem that individual human people can be wrongheaded/selfish/thoughtless and thereby get in the way of rightheaded/generous/thoughtful intentions?   And is the "share" of these people (holding positions?) in the government an over-abundance?  More than found in *any* institution?   Is there a *structural* problem that comes with the types of organization which we seem to (for possibly inevitable reasons) create over and over again?   Are these structural problems addressable with direct solutions (identifying and removing the offending substructures manually?(re-organization/downsizing)  adjusting the milieu in which they  exist in a preferential manner to reduce those structure's viability while allowing/encouraging less obstructionist structures to flourish? (regulatory environment) ?)  

One fundamental problem with the "cancer metaphor" is that it is based on a "government is alive" metaphor which deserves it's own scrutiny (though probably not summary dismissal?)

Regarding Dave's reference to the over/misuse of the Nazi trope, I recently heard someone make the specific point that invoking such immediately and thoroughly undermined the writer/speakers credibility.  Then they launched into the comparisons, but by pulling back to "authoritarian gov't, autocrats, autocracies" with Nazi/Hitler *examples* (and some Stalin and a few others mixed in).   I was left equally puzzled and impressed with the way that was done, because in fact, the *image* of Nazi Germany and Hitler are so strong that they can really power a point home, but using Glen's primary (most common/notable/persuasive?) argument against metaphor, it almost always comes with un/mis-intended "excess meaning".   This particular talk/essay (how is it I cant remember what comes in through my eyes and what comes in through my ears?) seemed to hit a very good balance in the number of hairs split to make the point without being misleading.

Is there any obvious resolution/relaxation to the tension between the elements in socio-political-economic life which provide structure and continuity and coherence and the individual desire/instinct to avoid all constraint?    En Caricature, the extreme Libertarian seems to pretend that the can/should/will solve all problems entirely by themselves and no larger human organizational unit is necessary, desirable or more to the point, possible.   And on the other caricatured extreme is the absolute collectivist who would have us all reduce our behaviour, circumstance and will to that of (analogy alert!) a drone bee or ant or termite in a hive.

- Steve

PS.  I've been loving watching the Jupiter/Saturn alignment approach during the very, very brief moment between Sun-set and Jupiter/Saturn-set... It is so close to MY horizon (Eastern edge of the Pajarito Plateau) a few degrees above sea-level that I *might* miss conjunction when it finally happens.

Thanks for a return to literality. You know what's a cancer? Analogies to cancer are a cancer!  >8^D 


On December 18, 2020 8:31:24 PM PST, Marcus Daniels [hidden email] wrote:
There are people that are in the way and a share of them are in
government.


    

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