Dave -
Your reference to Science Fiction tropes reminds me of Larry
Niven's "Footfall" wherein an alien species somewhat resembling
Elephants "lands" on humanity with all four feet heavily and we,
in our monkey-selves respond hyper-aggressively and clamber our
way (metaphorically) up these huge creature's legs to eventually
drag them down. As I remember the arc of the plot going, humans
are vastly outdone by these (advanced technologically) creatures
who seem hell-bent on "stomping us into the ground". It took an
anthropologist/zoologist (by perspective if not training) to
recognize that as some human battles got the upper hand, that the
"elephants" would "roll over" and being the angry monkeys we are,
we would use their vulnerability to "finish them off", after all,
they had been "stomping us into the ground" for months/years by
that time, so we had to use the upper hand given us. What was
recognized was the similarity of these "elephantine creatures" to
terrestrial elephants and that they were sincere in their
submission to our (rarely but occasional) superior ability in
battle. The amateur *-ologist convinced someone in a position of
authority in the military to *try* offering a formalized
(ritualized) "submission" to the aliens which yielded the
hoped-for results. This opened the door to a negotiation which
had heretofore been ignored/rebuffed... as if the alien
"elephants" did not understand negotiating with a "rival" until
there had been a test of ability/will/strength between them, and
the "monkey's" insistence to just fight harder when outmatched
seemed insane to them. As it ended (I think), it turned out that
the "elephants" were refugees from a dying solar system just
looking for a habitable place to settle, and were quite advanced
spiritually/intellectually/technologically and happy to coexist
with us... particularly well since they were herbivorous and also
had plenty of tech/art to offer us as a "companion species" if we
would just quit being so brutal when confronted, and submit when
bested!
I don't pretend this translates directly to our current red/blue, right/left problem, but there may be some useful ideas in there. Mary and I both came from Gun-toting, extraction-industry, red-state, red-neck stock and are both often *appalled* at what our family's and (former and current) neighbors find to be "reasonable" and "justified" (broadly Trumpism at it's worst) and yet on any given topic, we can understand (if not agree with their positions)... My own family is more problematic (in my opinion) than Mary's I feel like her brothers come by and maintain their limited world-view more rightly... no advanced education, strong blue-collar/extractive jobs, travel limited to 2 year stints on ships in the Navy, annual pilgrimages to Sturgis and one-price cruises or guided scuba expeditions with groups of their own "kind". My sister and her husband have traveled/lived the world, have advanced educations and are part of the worldwide network of advanced Transcendental Meditators who got up at 5AM (AZ time daily to meditate (pray?) together to smooth the 2020 election with their karmic resonance).... they are (decades late) on board with climate change, COVID-is-real and being honest about immigration pressures (finally) but were full up Trumpians until COVID. They are just "judgemental and sour" people when it comes to evaluating other's abilities/motivations/social-standing. They do fine with people they actually *meet* and *know* but are quick to dismiss huge swaths of people because of their differences? I think this style of dismissal of others is what you (Dave) keep calling *us* out on, even if the subjects are a different subset of the population. I'm just happy I can have meaningful conversations with one of their three children (and both of my own and all of Mary's) on these topics. The baby-boomers (and my mom who is of the 'Greatest') will just have to age/die out for a lot of this to change?
- Steve
"what many of us purport to *want* ... common ground with which to have a discussion with the right wing wackos in our lives."
Although I have heard people express a desire for such conversations and questions about finding a common ground upon which to base them — I do not believe a single one of them was honest or sincere.
There is only one circumstance in which a 'conversation' with a wacko has any point: a professional psychiatrist seeking to mitigate the mental condition of a patient.
Perhaps "right wing wackos" is simply a label (RWW) for a group and not an assertion of their sanity.
If RWW are an alien species, ala Martians, then conversation/dialog/exchange might be quite useful and even beneficial — the SciFi trope of "look how much we could learn from someone with such a different perspective." An alternative SciFi trope: "we can never understand each other so we must be implacable enemies and seek to annihilate each other;" is also possible. (Unfortunately, I think the second trope is far more descriptive of the majority of left-vs-right rhetoric these days.)
If RWW are simply an exotic human culture; conversation, dialogue, exchange; all are eminently desirable.
However, there are preconditions — maybe just one — the ethical principle of cultural anthropology: relativism. There are no objective criteria by which you can judge the 'correctness' the 'rightness' the 'fitness' (there is no cultural evolution theory analogous to Darwin with species) or the 'morality' among cultures. To think otherwise is ethnocentrism.
Ethnocentrism is perfect if your goal is to be a cultural imperialist or a missionary, but is not a foundation for constructive dialog or conversation.
I love and respect you all, but you seem to me to be one of the most ethnocentric (Liberal-Scientism, for want of a better label) cultures around.
A common saying about the role of an anthropologist: "to make the strange familiar and the familiar strange." An ethnography of the RWW would be, in my opinion, quite valuable; and, along with dropping the ethnocentrism, prerequisite to any conversation with them. You run the risk, however, that your study of the mote in the other's eye will craft a lens or a mirror that will reflect the beam in your own.
davew
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