Re: Shorthands for Brain-stuff

Posted by Russ Abbott on Oct 05, 2020; 4:48am
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Shorthands-for-Brain-stuff-tp7598943p7598961.html

One obvious quibble is to ask whether "A  determines the probability density over ..." isn't just a way of substituting the word determines for causes.

On the other hand, I like this approach. Another way to think about is that changing A results in a change in B (or a change in the probability of B). It's like A is something like a remote control for B.

What's especially interesting about this approach is that one is not obligated to show how that change happens -- just that it does. 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 9:06 PM Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> wrote:

No, but Clark Glymour might.

Seriously though, our working definition of "A causes B" is that the occurrence of A  determines the probability density over the set of possible values of the occurrence of B.  There are many ways to quibble with this definition but we were able to construct a set of algorithms for learning causal models (in the form of digraphs) from observational data notwithstanding the quibbles.  

As I posted recently, Tetrad, the software implementation of those algorithms, won a SAIL award at the World Artificial Intelligence Conference.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 9:42 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Frank,

 

Causality is one of the great cesspools of philosophy, and I am in no position to pump it.  For one thing, it seems to me that causality statements are classic instances of category errors.  We speak of event A causing event B, but, whenever we do, we are adverting to evidence that shows that Events of Class A have been necessary or sufficient conditions for event of Class B.  So, like any things, causality lives at a higher level of organization than that to which we normally attribute it.  We can say that a single event  of B following A is consistent with causality, but we probably should be careful never to say that event A caused event B.  After all, this instance of B following A, could always, conceivably, be a coincidence. 

 

I would love to know what your collaborators think of that assertion.  Is this the kind of thing that George Duncan could dope-slap me about?

 

Nick

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 9:21 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Shorthands for Brain-stuff

 

Having worked in the field of causal reasoning for many years I am inclined to say that every event is both a cause and an effect.  But perhaps you're using the words differently.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 9:11 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

MGD>  In your model intents come from the l.teleonomicus, machinery that follows the same rules of physics as everything else.

[NST===>Yes, but not just those laws.  <===nst]

 

What other rules?  There are rules that override physics?  How is that lump of goo different from any other lump of goo?

 

Marcus

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