Hi, Steve,
Well, I hate people who hate. Hating something, particularly any category as broad as “religious people”, is like putting your own eyes out and blaming the darkness. I hate myself when I hate. But I think the hatred described here is mostly rhetorical. There is a way of talking on FRIAM that involves using hyperbole with a wink, and, given that 80 percent of Americans are more or less religious, I think this is an example. It’s almost equivalent to saying, “I hate people,” which I can complete understand, but wouldn’t admit to out loud. Actually, I don’t think there are a lot of haters in this group.
‘
I think we are at our best as a group when we talk about things we (1) care about, (2) on which we have some [expert?} experience to bring to bear, and on which our minds are at least slightly ajar. I do wish complexity would rear its ugly head more often in our discussions, but I would guess we have drifted away from it both in caring and in knowledge, so, if we tried to get a discussion going, it would be like burping up last night’s Famiglia Cribari. µ
Nick
µ For those of you who are under 80, Famiglia Cribari was the graduate student wine of choice in the 60’s. You bought it in jugs. If you brought a whole jug to a pot luck, you were forgiven for not bringing any food.
Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 12:15 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Cc: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why some people hate cops
Marcus writes:
I guess the only thing I hate more than cops are religious people.
As a list admin, this might be flaggable. I'm not sure if expressing hatred of a protected class of people in of itself is hate speech- it seems to be at least up to the line. Ie, replace with "The two groups I hate more than cops are gays and black people" - would I have a responsibility to intercede?
As I consider the impotence of this group to take political action and incite political violence I consider the statement low to zero risk. I will take no action as a list admin. Intellectually, I would like to know where the line of hate speech is.
Now, as a fellow list member and religious person, I find your hate an opportunity for discussion and exploration. I would estimate your emotion is held by at least a rough majority of list members.
The Science / Religion schism, I think it is one of the great divides in our political situation and may signify a phase transition in our culture as we stretch for new metaphors in scientific and spiritual understanding. The 2000-year old metaphors are certainly getting long in the tooth. Similarly, many on this list feel the 60-year-old scientific metaphors around fundamental questions of intelligence and living systems are in the process of updating and exploration. I suspect there will be opportunities for synthesis.
Perhaps Merle would like to facilitate a virtualFriam on the topic.
-Stephen
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