http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/do-animals-psychologize-tp7591762p7591809.html
I don't recall saying trees feel no pain. I just said that movement was a poor indicator of the ability to feel pain or the potential ability to feel pain.
For a host of reasons I would agree with you that neither trees nor humans "feel pain." That which we label pain (some kind of physiological stimulus-response) simply is. The label and the verb-label dyad are delusional overlays.
> So, David,
>
> A tree, when assaulted by caterpillars, alters its physiology to produce
> toxins (at cost to its growth) and puts out chemicals to alert
> neighboring trees which do the same.
>
> On what basis exactly do you assert that trees don't feel pain.
>
> I stipulate that this question is asked by a person who doesn't think
> humans "feel pain". There aren’t two steps, pain and the feeling of it.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
>
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 2:28 PM
> To:
[hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize?
>
>
> Weighing yourself everyday is actually an excellent way to promote
> weight loss. So too frequent, even hourly, measures of heart rate,
> glucose level, etc. Not because you do something in reaction to the
> measure, simply because it causes a kind of Hawthorne Effect, that
> forces you to intentionally take, or refrain from taking, some kind of
> action - like eating that sixth doughnut.
>
> I am watching plants move outside of my window. I doubt the plants are
> feeling pain, nor are they reacting to/ avoiding pain. True, most people
> don't eat pines, cedars, and manzanitas, and food plants, e.g. a potato,
> don't move much. But still, movement, even as an indicator or potential
> for feeling pain, seems less than useful.
>
> Besides, pain is good: 1) "no pain, no gain;" 2) self-flagellation to
> bring oneself closer to God; or 3) "Pain is instructive." Baron von
> Masoch
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, at 8:00 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote:
> > Not at all. One can over-intervene with respect to any ongoing dynamic.
> > For example, some people concerned about their weight will step on a
> > scale every day and, based on what they see, either modify their diet
> > for the day or perhaps simply feel one way or another (good or bad).
> > But such instantaneous measures are largely useless for health and
> > fitness. It's the trends that matter. And any intervention should be
> > done based on the trends and maintained for quite awhile before their
> > effects can be understood.
> >
> > On 09/14/2018 04:57 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > > Out of curiosity, does over-intervention concern apply to government behavior only? One could imagine the same technology trends empower many groups and individuals.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ∄ uǝʃƃ
> >
> > ============================================================
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> > at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> >
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