Dear John and Russ,
Well, you question is an example of it self. Who is best qualified to explain the basis of Nick's denial of subjectivity? Is this a question about aetiology: I.e., the causal history of Nick's coming to deny subjectivity? Or is it a question of what rational arguments Nick might make for his denial of subjectivity. Note that there is nothing particularly private about either of those forms of the question. FRIAM could get to work on answering them and Nick could stand aside and wonder at the quality and perspicacity of your answers. My own most recent and condensed and approachable attempt to answer both versions of the question can be found in the manuscript that is attached. I can’t find cc of the published vsn at the moment.
I will think about the intimacy issue. I think it’s about having some others who know things about you that are not generally known. I would argue that when you get into bed with somebody naked, it’s a metaphor. But then, I am old.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
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-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Kennison
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 2:30 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy
One thing I wonder about (or perhaps have forgotten) in this discussion and Nick's denial is what the denial is based on. Is the absence of subjectivity supposed to be a scientific fact? If so, we should be discussing the experimental foundations of this fact. I have read of some experiments which seem to indicate that subjectiviity is not exactly what we (or what I) used to think it is --but which do not seem to disprove subjectivity.
--John
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From: Friam [[hidden email]] on behalf of Russ Abbott [[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 3:27 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy
We've had discussions on and off about subjectivity -- with me getting frustrated at Nick's denial thereof (if I understood him correctly).
It occurred to me recently that intimacy is defined -- as I understand it -- in terms of subjectivity, i.e., the sharing of one's (most private) subjective experiences with another.
I'm wondering what Nick thinks about this and whether anyone else has something to say about it. In particular, if there is no such thing as subjective experience, does that imply in your view that the same goes for intimacy?
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