Posted by
John Kennison on
Nov 03, 2015; 1:08pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/FW-Meat-tp7586810p7586845.html
I'm having trouble keeping up with this thread, but how does it relate to severely autistic people with almost zero social skills who, nonetheless, can prove deep mathematical theorems?
________________________________________
From: Friam [
[hidden email]] on behalf of Nick Thompson [
[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 2:33 AM
To:
[hidden email]; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Meat
Hi Carl,
I like Steve's idea (Was it Steve's? I am having a hard time following!)
that as scientists we live in a network of other scientists, and our own
behavior is not so important as the constraints enforced on us as part of
the network. So, my wonder at the fact that we make decisions in our
personal lives so unscientifically is really based on what Ryle would call a
category error ... an expectation that the behavior of an entity at once
level of organization (the scientist) should mirror the behavior of the
entity at the next level up (the science). So, we shouldn't expect our
decision making processes with respect to hot dogs to be any more scientific
than the ordinary Joe's.
But then I get back to where I got started on this quest -- our Friday
morning discussions on global warming, or some of these other tricky issues
on which there is a scientific consensus, and yet there is a public debate.
Why do we not ALL -- as scientists -- agree that there exists a scientific
consensus on this matter and that that is the end of the discussion, until
further notice. Not only do we not think scientifically with respect to
these issues, but we fail to accept the authority of the network of which we
are part.
Isn't that odd?
By the way, I think the heart disease thing is caused by sugar, not fat.
See, now I am doing it.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 PM
To:
[hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] FW: Meat
Speaking as a mammal, who has gone to some efforts to be well preserved,
it now appears that I am carcinogenic if consumed. I am unsure as to
whether to be disappointed or elated. Certainly a caution to those of
cannibalistic bent.
This does raise the issue that if I am indeed carcinogenic, why am I less so
to myself in the similar way that I might be to others?
Ticks carry other nasty things, even without the Lyme problem. I know
people who have Lyme, it is unpleasant for them. I like beets, and
curry, irrespective of their supposed benefits, so am predisposed to
hear nice things about their benefits. I believe most diagnoses of
arthritis are bogus because I don't wish to believe I am of an age
susceptible to such and because I can with some attention to detail fix
it most of the time. Smoking is an obnoxious habit, perpetrated by
those who have little regard for themselves or others. I'm sorry if it
causes them cancer. I believed animal fats caused cardiovascular
issues since some hyperlipidemia runs in my family and have seen first
hand the devastation cardiovascular diseases can cause. However, I
have become convinced that (a) I feel noticeably better with some meat in my
diet and (b) my social group thinks that cholesterol is perhaps not as
strong a factor in heart disease as other things and (c) as I read up on
these things I see that the disease (like cancer) is not a
single thing with unique causes per individual. I live next to pigs
and goats and chickens and am likely under no illusions about what "farm
fresh" in the grocery store means. I am trying to make an organic
garden at my hut and am increasingly impressed with the difficulty of
defining the term. Generally, I try to follow a fish and rice and
veggies Japanese diet; it feels "cleaner", which is an mental model brought
on by my very long standing Japanophilia as much as anything else.
There. I see statements to the effect of "statistically, meat causes
cancer" and I laugh. Thanks for playing. Two Martian potatoes out of
a possible five.
C
On 10/27/15 11:06 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Dear Friam members,
>
> As those of you in the mother church are already aware, I have been
> trying to foment a conversation about what rationality consists of and
> how does it relate to a purported scientific consensus. I assume that
> you are all, more or less, rational people. How exactly, then, did
> each of you come to the conclusion that, say, animal fats do or do not
> cause heart disease, smoking does or does not cause cancer, human
> activity does or does not cause global warming, that tick bites do (or
> do not) cause a syndrome called chronic Lyme disease, that, say, beet
> powder improves metabolism (?), or that turmeric does or does not
> alleviate arthritis. Or, perhaps more important, how did you decide to
act on these beliefs? Or not?
>
> A friend of mine is always trying to change my eating habits and now
> assaults me with evidence that red meat, particularly if processed, is
> increasing my risk of cancer. She includes in her email several links
> that are designed to convince me. I include those below.
>
> The question I would like us to consider is not really the substance
> of the matter. I am effing 77 years old, with a dozen things wrong
> with me that are likely to kill me long before tomorrow's hotdog will.
> I am more interested in the process by which each of you will decide
> whether or not to change your habits on the basis of this new
> evidence, or try to change the habits of your children or
> grandchildren. In what sense will that process be "reasonable?"
>
> Discuss.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University
>
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EMAIL
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 8:31 PM
> To: Nick Thompson <
[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Meat
>
> Here's a thoughtful look at what the WHO had to say about meat and cancer:
>
>
http://examine.com/blog/scientists-just-found-that-red-meat-causes-can> cer--o
> r-did-they/?utm_source=Examine.com+Insiders&utm_campaign=34d0d95b1b-Re
> d_mead
> 10_27_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e4d662cb1b-34d0d95b1b-70203945&
> ct=t(R
> ed_mead10_27_2015)&goal=0_e4d662cb1b-34d0d95b1b-70203945&mc_cid=34d0d9
> 5b1b&m
> c_eid=3edf56d922
>
> Apparently the WHO looked at 800 different studies. That's a lot of
> studies. Is it a meta study?
>
> R
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
>> R
>>
>> I always wait for the metastudy.
>>
>> n
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University
>>
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EMAIL
>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 3:35 PM
>> To: Nick Thompson <
[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Meat
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>> Are you freaking out about the meat/cancer news? Here's an article
>> that puts it in perspective:
>>
>>
http://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/oct/26/m>> e
>> at-and
>> -tobacco-the-difference-between-risk-and-strength-of-evidence?CMP=fb_
>> a -scien ce_b-gdnscience?CMP=fb_a-science_b-gdnscience
>>
>>
> .
>>
>
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