Russ: I you aware that these words might have been quoted, word for word, from Peirce?
Yes. Science is the set of behaviors we use to refine our behaviors for future behaving. Engineering is the set of behaviors we use to (semi)permanently modify our surroundings.
Science is a process of self-modification, where the self is us, not just me. Engineering is a process of other-modification.
I think you might take over the mantle of the Village Pragmatist, here.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:35 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] science and language
Russ Abbott wrote at 04/22/2013 11:19 AM:
> The implied division of labor in the preceding is that science figures
> out what the forces of nature are and how they work; engineering uses
> that knowledge to manipulate those forces (for the benefit of
> mankind). Would you say it differently?
Yes. Science is the set of behaviors we use to refine our behaviors for future behaving. Engineering is the set of behaviors we use to (semi)permanently modify our surroundings.
Science is a process of self-modification, where the self is us, not just me. Engineering is a process of other-modification.
Hence, medicine is in an interesting position. It's a little bit science and a little bit engineering. Unfortunately, it's approached as purely engineering.
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Russ Abbott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> There isn't much in today's science that I personally can use to
>> manipulate the world.
I disagree. I'd say that something like 90% of today's science is something any individual can use to manipulate the world. The trick is that you have to think scientifically. How can you _test_ E=MC^2? Most people don't even think about how they might actually test that, because they're _programmed_ to think it's some high-falutin' idea that they can't use.
Russ Abbott wrote at 04/22/2013 11:26 AM:
> Is it possible to express knowledge without language? Doesn't any
> expression of knowledge imply a language?
As I said before, the question boils down to the definition of language.
Is it "expressing knowledge" to, without writing or talking, bake a cake while another person watches?
--
=><= glen e. p. ropella
I'm living free because the rent's never due
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