Posted by Russ Abbott on URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Faith-tp7580633p7580687.html
Steve,
OK. Those seem like two distinct meanings of "faith." I was talking and thinking of your second one.
-- Russ
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Steve, Your post is too long for me to
comment on it here.
Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an
article of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously
adopted element not backed up by the same type of validation seems
pretty concise?
CS Wiki and the courses I
teach _____________________________________________
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, ERIC
P. CHARLES <[hidden email]>
wrote:
But Russ... if you concede Tory's point, then I think you
are quite
stuck.
There are many, many, many people for whom the everyday
world
contains a divine being... and the everyday world is the
everyday world. There
are people who train hard to see God surrounding them, and
there are people for
whom it seems to come quite naturally (which is not to say
it didn't develop,
just that it came easily). For these people, by your
definition, belief in God,
and belief that God will continue to be with them forever,
are NOT issues of
faith.
Eric
P.S. I have no idea what Nick will say about "faith"
vs. "belief"! I think the concepts overlap pretty
obviously, i.e., faith seems
like it should be a subclass of belief. On the other hand,
one could treat them
as two different ways of talking about the same sort of
thing. If we can get
past your odd claim that faith has to be religious AND
that religious things
are not part of everyday life, I would be very interested
to know how you think
the two relate.
As I
understand your position the words
"faith" and "belief" are synonyms. I
would prefer a definition for "faith"
that distinguishes it from
"belief."
Tory,
Thanks
for you comment on my posts. I'm glad
you enjoy
them.
My
definition
of faith makes use of the notion of
the everyday world. But I'm not saying
that the everyday
world is the same for everyone.
Your everyday world may be
different from mine. I'm just saying
that believing that the world will
continue to conform to yoursense
of what the
everyday world is like is not faith;
it's simple
belief.
Eric,
I would
take
"having faith in something" in
the colloquial sense as different from
"faith" in a religious
context, which is what I was focusing
on.
--
Russ
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:27
PM, Victoria
Hughes <victoria@...>
wrote:
Russ wrote, in part-
Faith, I would say (in fact I did
earlier)
is believing something that one wouldn't
otherwise believe without
faith.
Believing that the everyday world is
the everyday world
doesn't seem to me to require faith.
Russ, with all due respect for
the enjoyment I get from your
posts, I find this suspiciously
tautological.
Who are you to define for the
rest of humanity (and other
sentient life forms) what 'the
everyday world' incorporates?
Numerous 'for instance' cases can
immediately be made here. All you
can do is define what you believe
for yourself. You cannot
extrapolate what is defensible for
others to believe, from your own
beliefs.
And this statement ' Faith is
believing something that one
wouldn't believe without faith'.
Hm and hm again.
Eagleman's new book Incognito offers
fruitful information from recent
neuroscience that may interest
others on this list. His ultimate
sections bring up hard questions
about legal and ethical issues in
the face of the myriad 'zombie
programs' that run most of our
behaviour. This looks like - but
is not as simplistic as - 'yet
another pop science book.'
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------------
Eric Charles
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org