Friam - Re: Just as a bye-the-way

Friam

Re: Just as a bye-the-way

Posted by Robert J. Cordingley on Mar 23, 2012; 10:17pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Just-as-a-bye-the-way-tp7397553p7400073.html

It's possible that...

- there may be a direct correlation between less intelligence and belief in what others will tell them (e.g. dogma and religious BS) - because neither knows any better.
- and that may have nothing to do with whether a belief in the Divine is correlated with intelligence.
- there may be a direct correlation between intelligence and the model of the Divine held by the believer. Those with little or no imagination may prefer the fatherly bearded figure on a throne or no-one/thing at all.
- the more introspective may develop a model more subtle: e.g. 'existing' between the branes of the universes yet present 'everywhere' in one of 11 higher dimensions, fielding energies unforeseen that impact on the spiritually aware entities in the different universes under Its influence... or something completely different... perhaps it's metaphorically turtles all the way down (branes within branes within...) held together by...

No evidence of existence is not proof of non-existence - even if our limited anthropocentric concept of existence applies here. We may be thinking about It all wrong.

I've observed that the extent to which people "take it as an article of faith" depends on the school of teachings. Doubt - an antidote to fanaticism - healthily shows itself often, contrary to 'taking the article'. And as for the final interesting but loaded question... at least I'd like to think the BS quotient should fall.

There's a discussion of the religiosity and intelligence studies in Wikipedia.

Then there's the story of the Scottish atheist fishing in Lock Ness when suddenly his boat was tossed in the air. The fisherman gazed in fright at the Loch Ness Monster opening it's terrible jaws about to devour fisherman, boat and all. The fisherman cried out "God help me!". God replied " Why should I - you don't believe in me!" "Give me a break, I didn't believe in the Loch Ness monster a moment ago either!"

Timing may be everything.

Thanks
Robert C

On 3/23/12 2:42 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

So, for reference: a 2X intelligence delta that we have all probably experienced, perhaps without knowing it, would be from talking with a person who had an IQ of 70, followed by engaging with a person having a140 IQ.

I will ignore quibbles about the accuracy of IQ as an intelligence measure for the purpose of this discussion.

I suspect the less intelligent person truely believes the religious dogma he's been taught. No ambiguity: true belief.

I've observed that the more intelligent people put part of their intellect to sleep when it comes to religion. They call this process "taking it as an article of faith" when one of the irrational elements of their religion is brought into the spotlight.

So the question that I would have, were we all to suddenly evolve 2X intelligence is: to what extent would we collectively be willing to suspend our intelligent thought processes in order to continue to believe religious bullshit?

Working from my phone today...

-Doug

Sent from Android.
On Mar 23, 2012 1:58 PM, "Robert J. Cordingley" <[hidden email]> wrote:
For starters what would you consider to be good and bad - assuming you are still a human being, with human interests at least? It's a problem because I haven't premised whether you have infinite knowledge to go with the infinite intelligence 'cos the two together is/are looking like an omni-something being etc.

Ok, so let's assume humans evolve collectively to be 2x or 10x more intelligent than now. How would society change? Would anyone vote for Republicans? or Democrats? Would we even have a voting system? Would the jails be empty?

Thanks
Robert C

On 3/23/12 1:23 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
Good question about infinite intelligence. Try to even frame a reference for answering that one.

Sent from Android.
On Mar 23, 2012 12:14 PM, "Robert J. Cordingley" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm told many find comfort in the teachings of <insert your spiritual leader here>. I thought it odd/insightful that Joseph Cambell found the same core message in the world's major religious teachings. I can believe moral atheists share the same core teachings. Then there are those from all persuasions that hijack a religion for their own purposes: political or financial power - they can all burn in hell! :) But hey if it works even as a social phenomenon, i.e. allows one to enjoy life and live longer and die in peace, can we knock it?

Otherwise I must congratulate Father Doug in becoming a man of the cloth at the CotFSM and following in a long line of inspired spiritual teachers. I liked the bit about ' we are anti-crazy nonsense done in the name of religion.' (see the About page). Noodle on.

Thanks,
Robert C
PS What would you believe if you had infinite intelligence? R

On 3/22/12 11:31 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
Doug, I don't want to pick on you, but your certificate strikes me as indirect bullying.

I'm as atheistic as they come, but I know a number of people who (for reasons that I don't understand) take religion quite seriously. They are intelligent, pleasant people, not the sort to rub their beliefs in anyone's face. Most are politically left of center. One has a bumper sticker that reads "A proud member of the religious left".

Why pick on them? I'm sure you don't intend to. I'm sure you are making fun of the Rick Santorums of the world. It's just that by casting as wide a net as the Flying Spaghetti Monster does, it also makes fun of everyone with religious feelings.

The answer someone like Sam Harris would give is that what they say is either false or without any shred of objective support. But the people I'm thinking of don't go around proclaiming their beliefs as The Truth. They go about their business simply wanting to experience the world through a different lens. The fact that I don't understand it -- and I don't; I'm completely mystified by their way of thinking about certain things -- doesn't give me the right to ridicule it.

Sorry for the rant.

-- Russ

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:

Don't want my FRIAM friends and acquaintances to be the last to know:

If you feel like getting married, I can now conduct the ceremony.

"With this rigatoni, I thee wed, etc."

-Father Doug

--
Doug Roberts
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org