Posted by
Vladimyr Burachynsky on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/TSA-security-technology-and-opting-out-tp5759060p5769034.html
Thanks Glen very informative,
Canada is also struggling with these issues and our logic is also being
tested. But the writer is truly a remarkable individual the man must have
been a lawyer.
However, I am not sure how we can find solutions to the situation. Your
American Constitutional Rights are not Identical To ours. But they do
substantially overlap. Now Our constitution was only recently repatriated
and redefined and we watched as communities struggled to put in print what
they wanted to see. Some experts warned that the rights being entrenched
actually nibbled away or contradicted other rights within the same
documents.
Now it looks clearly like you guys just hit the wall the TSA was instructed
to carry out specific duties that conflicted with established documented
rights. The TSA was supposed to reduce fear among travelers. Well that
conflict over which takes precedence was superbly enacted by your writer
Matt. I compliment him. Now studying the game as was played it was clear
that TSA dictates did not superceed your constitutional Rights and I
compliment the Officers for finding a solution which though awkward was at
least preserving the entrenched rights of the citizen. Zizek discussed the
behavior of Yugoslavs especially police who imagined that their orders
permitted them to exceed legitimate powers. That belief was so attractive it
help recruit a large number of psychopaths to service. Pretty soon so many
nuts were giving themselves extra power that the slaughter of innocents went
unopposed. Zizek makes perhaps the best explanation of how normal people
become transformed by the group into monsters. Conformity, which curiously
also explains the passive attitude of millions during the Nazi regime. One
disease two faces.
Britain does not apparently have an entrenched bill of rights expressly to
avoid just such a situation. They argue that some flexibility of rights is
required to avoid constant testing and possible fracture. Our constitution
has many extraordinary rights reflecting modern social structures and
attempted to be very specific. To its detriment it is perhaps more fragile
than the American constitution. Your example clearly demonstrates what lies
in store for all nations that attempted entrenched bills of rights
subsequent to the American system. Now attempts to alter bills of rights
during unusual circumstances are not often successful. As you may recall
Canada went through its own terrorist crisis years ago when Radicals
kidnapped a Quebec provincial government official. Our Prime Minister
declared the infamous WAR MEASURES ACT, it was meant to give authorities
special powers to deal with a national threat or insurrection. It almost
tore us apart as a Nation. Police in distant regions used the new powers to
justify mass arrests of persons completely outside the scope of the problem.
I myself was held at Gun Point in Toronto for a few minutes as a teenager.
Hundreds of kilometers away from the problem. Police abuse of power cases
filled the courts for years but generally the police were allowed to slide.
Things returned to normal in short order and most of us forgot. The new
constitution was supposed to solve such minor problems. But we fought hard
over the new constitution and I believe it was enacted ultimately without
approval of the parties involved. It is not finished. Now we are very
unlikely ever to see a nation reneg on entrenched rights so the issue comes
down to how to obtain a balance. Generally the Brits seem to have an easier
time than either of us. But even their citizens are expecting something more
along the American model.
I listen to TEA Party proponents discuss your constitution and it sounds a
lot like they want to do away with the terms while still preserving the
empty carcass. Fine it is a populist movement and the apparatus of democracy
will prevent them from ever carrying it out short of an armed insurrection.
Canada is also protected by an enormous unelected democratic apparatus to
prevent such populist movements from burning down our houses.
But thankfully people like Mat document the conflicts methodically and they
can now be studied.
Both my experience and Mat's have some similarities though I admit I was not
as professional and feebly excuse my sarcasm with the fact that I was also
in extreme pain at the time. Nevertheless The officials temporarily averted
a profoundly imminent disaster. It seems part of this situation has to do
with the way the public has been driven to extremes of fear ahead of time.
The use of fear in politics may be expedient but like Black Magic it comes
back to bite you in the ass. Your public is being unreasonably and
dangerously polarized as I fear is ours as well. Fear was used to justify
the Canadian War Measures act and also your TSA. We should demonstrate
perhaps using some of the concepts of Complexity that any civilian
population bearing high levels of Fear will ultimately engender disastrous
consequences which appear to require even more fear in order to control. It
did not work the first time and why anyone believes more will solve the
problem is beyond me. The psychological trap is believing that fear provides
an authority with control never worked for the Soviets nor Hitler or
Hussein. We know fear is self defeating yet we insist on using it to save
time or effort. If complexity theory could demonstrate that fear when
elevated in Agents results in extraordinarily bad decisions perhaps people
will avoid using it. It is only a hopeful guess. Fear is a lot like alcohol
it promises something and delivers the unexpected when used in excess.
Honestly I do not wish any more guns to be pointed at my head nor at anyone
elses'. But I will demonstrate my disapproval more politely next time.
Thanks Glen. I hope more people are reading your link. It was forecast that
the terrorists only had to make the Americans fearful and they would cause
more damage to themselves than Al Quaeda could ever imagine. No real weapon
was ever required to get Americans to hurt eachother.
Unlike alcohol fear has another peculiar attribute , it seems to
purposefully demand the elimination of reason and critics as a preliminary
step toward rapid expansion. Fear appears to be well cognizant of it's
enemies such as comedians and old geezers with big mouths.
Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky
Ph.D.(Civil Eng.), M.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), M.Sc.(Biology)
120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.
Winnipeg, Manitoba
CANADA R2J 3R2
(204) 2548321 Phone/Fax
[hidden email]
-----Original Message-----
From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of glen e. p. ropella
Sent: November 23, 2010 2:12 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] TSA, security technology, and opting out
Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky wrote circa 10-11-20 04:39 PM:
> If we do not object then we deserve what we get. Now I understand how the
> Jews walked into the death camps without protest. That always struck me as
> out of character. Now our entire society is incapable of protest. The
> psychology of human degradation is very intriguing.
More fodder:
My TSA Encounter
http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095,
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
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