Posted by
glen ep ropella on
Apr 25, 2008; 8:13pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Welcome-Jim-tp526087p526116.html
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phil henshaw wrote:
> Self-consistent models represent environments very well, just omitting their
> living parts, "mind without matter".
>
> Would any of the things you guys suggested fix that?
I believe so. At least 1/2 of the solution to any problem lies in a
good formulation of the problem. And in that sense, being able to state
(as precisely as possible) which closures are maintained in which
context and which closures are broken in which context, therefore,
contributes immensely to the solution.
I.e. if the problem is that our modeling methods only capture isolable
(separable, "linear", analytic, etc.) systems _well_, then we need other
modeling methods to capture holistic ("nonlinear", non-analytic)
systems. As I understand it, this is the basic conception behind the
"sustainability movement", somehow capturing or understanding
externalities and engineering organizations so that their waste is more
useful to other organizations.
What Rosen tried to do (in my _opinion_) is help us specify what parts
of our modeling methods are inadequate to the task of capturing certain
broken closures. I.e. I think he tried to explain _why_ so many of our
models are so fragile, namely, because they cannot capture the closure
of efficient cause (agency). That concept requires no mathematics (ala
category theory). But he tried to communicate the concept using
mathematics and logic via the discussions of Poincare's
"impredicativity" and rhetorical vs. causal loops.
So, yes, I think these things can help with our understanding of the
fragility of _simple_ models ("mechanism" in Rosen's peculiar
terminology). Even if Rosen's MR-systems or his "closure to efficient
cause" are inadequate to the task (which I think they _are_), at least
considering those attempts and how/where they may fail facilitates our
progress toward other, hopefully more successful, solutions.
- --
glen e. p. ropella, 971-219-3846,
http://tempusdictum.comOurs is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. -- Omar N. Bradley
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