Robert Rosen

Posted by Phil Henshaw-2 on Dec 31, 2007; 5:49am
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Robert-Rosen-tp525507p525518.html

Nick, what got my interest is the similarity of meaning between 'closed
to efficient causation' and  'have their own behavior', the property of
physical organisms we constantly have to remind ourselves of whenever
dealing with organisms...

Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:56 PM
> To: nickthompson at earthlink.net; The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Robert Rosen
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 11:32:33AM -0700, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Ok, so my questions about Rosen are of a really fundamental nature.
> > You guys are already WAY down the track.
> >
> > In fact, could somebody clarify, in terms that a former
> english major
> > would understand, what it means to say,
> >
> > "organisms are closed to efficient causation."  
> > I read it and I read it and I READ it and it just doesnt STICK!
> >
>
> You probably read about Aristotle's four causes - this is the
> origin of the term efficient causation.
>
> "closed to efficient causation" in my mind simply says that
> something is its own cause. If we ask why does this chicken
> exist, the answer is because of an egg existing. When we ask
> why did the egg exist, the answer is because a chook exists
> (adult chicken). Causation in this sense is closed.
>
> When you ask any question about the causation of life, you
> ultimately come back on youself. The meaning of life is life
> itself. It exists because it can.
>
> I hope this explanation makes some kind of sense. I beleive
> that much of Rosen's tortured explanation was trying to
> formalise this fairly simple and obvious idea. It is worth
> comparing and contrasting it with the notion of autopoiesis,
> which is a little better developed.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>
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