http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/FRIAM-and-CAUSALITY-was-NOT-complexity-and-emergence-tp525402.html
i.e. an instance of x causing y. But we actually know NOTHING about
causality in the particular instance. What we DO know about, because our
the past. So to speak of causality in the particular instance in the
PRESENT is ACTUALLY to speak of patterns in the past. In this way,
cases but the knowledge is about patterns.
talking about the PATTERNS. That conversation about the individual present
instances is actually a distraction. Let's STOP substituting a
causality as pattern.
about psychological and biological attributions. What I hate is that
motivation. (If I read one more SCINEWS article about how wonderful it is
that the brain lights up when the organism is thinking, I shall .... shall
Roughly analogous to killing the golden goose. For heaven's sake, let's
ps. For those of you who are EP-ists, I would love to join in a
conversation about the human tendancy to concretise pattern ... the fallacy
of misplaced concreteness. I think this is the common pattern that unifies
explanation.
> [Original Message]
> From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Date: 12/11/2007 10:04:35 AM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 54, Issue 9
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. complexity and emergence (was: FRIAM and causality)
> (Glen E. P. Ropella)
> 2. JungleDisk - Reliable online storage powered by Amazon S3 ? -
> Jungle Disk (Owen Densmore)
> 3. Re: JungleDisk - Reliable online storage powered by Amazon S3
> (Marcus G. Daniels)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:38:19 -0800
> From: "Glen E. P. Ropella" <gepr at tempusdictum.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] complexity and emergence (was: FRIAM and causality)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <475DB1CB.3060809 at tempusdictum.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
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>
> Phil Henshaw on 12/09/2007 01:13 PM:
> > Well, hopefully returning to the main thread. The question seems to
> > concern an observation that information can be 'misused', letting people
> > capitalize on the interesting ways in which 'bad models' don't fit, to
> > display a 'reality' beyond the information which is both verifiably
> > present and verifiably explorable. To me that seems to have a bearing
> > on the sort of opposite principle of Niels Bohr. I believe Bohr's idea
> > was that because science works only with information that a fundamental
> > assumption of science must be that nothing exists which can not be
> > represented with information, ...and so, only immature thinkers could
> > possibly doubt that at the most fundamental level the structure of the
> > universe is that "God rolls dice", I think it goes.
> >
> > Do you see that connection or any bits and pieces of it? Or are these
> > durable shapes in the fog between the models something different?
>
> I definitely see a connection. The "interstitial spaces" or
> "interactions" that are the primary subject of complexity studies fall
> (to my mind) squarely in the category of "implicit" or "not clearly
> identified, named, or described".
>
> To me, much of the controversy around both "complexity" and "emergence"
> lies in this very sense of the "unameable". It's not so much that the
> words are meaningless, abused, or reflect subjective phenomena, as it is
> that these are words intended to refer to un-identified, un-named, or
> un-described things. Once a phenomenon is identified, named, and
> described explicitly, it ceases to be "emergent" or "complex" in some
> (non-technical) uses of those terms.
>
> I don't particularly relate it to Bohr's principle (as you've described
> it), though. I'm a fan of _naive_ approaches to understanding and
> manipulating things because a naive perspective can help one escape
> infinite regress ("rat holes") and paradox set up by historical trends.
> So, when convenient, it's a good thing to just assume reality is as its
> portrayed in our (always false) models. But, like all perspectives,
> it's useful to be able to don and doff them in order to achieve some end.
>
> In the end, most of the "shapes in the fog" _can_ be identified, named,
> and described. But, some of them resist. It's tough to tell whether
> such "shapes in the fog" are real or just an artifact of the models
> through which we look. In the end, given the tools we have available,
> we can't state, definitively, that some thing we cannot identify, name,
> or describe clearly is a thing at all. We are left with falsification
> as the only reliable method. We can never say: "Bob's description is
> true." We can only say: "Bob's description has not yet been shown
> false." Likewise, we can't say "that shape in the fog _is_ merely bias
> resulting from millenia of bad language". We can only say "models 1-n
> fail to capture that shape in the fog".
>
> - --
> glen e. p. ropella, 971-219-3846,
http://tempusdictum.com> There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally
> and attempting to make them equal. -- F.A. Hayek
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:40:23 -0700
> From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
> Subject: [FRIAM] JungleDisk - Reliable online storage powered by
> Amazon S3 ? - Jungle Disk
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <90E1A1BF-7206-4DB1-AFA6-207B9F2FD075 at backspaces.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Anyone use this?
>
http://www.jungledisk.com/>
> .. a friend mentioned it while discussing having my "desktop"
> available everywhere. So I'm hoping I can either use the remote disk
> in real-time .. i.e. literally edit remote files .. or use it as an
> incremental update.
>
> -- Owen
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:48:00 -0700
> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] JungleDisk - Reliable online storage powered by
> Amazon S3
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <475DDE40.4020903 at snoutfarm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >
> > <
http://www.jungledisk.com/>
> > .. a friend mentioned it while discussing having my "desktop"
> > available everywhere.
> On this topic, another interesting technology for around the house. USB
> monitors (monitors with graphics cards built in) -- combine with a Wifi
> USB extender. No wires!
>
>
http://www.displaylink.com/shop.html>
http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GUWH104KIT>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Friam Digest, Vol 54, Issue 9
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