Posted by
Phil Henshaw-2 on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/When-is-something-complex-tp525080p525088.html
...maybe a definition that to go with Yaneer's riddle, and that fits
with all, is that any individual thing is complex beyond measure and any
explanations are all comparatively very simple, differing among them
only by whether they work or not.
Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
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-----Original Message-----
From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Mikhail Gorelkin
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:31 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
It seems I found a more fundamental definition: ?So, if you want to
characterize the complexity of an object, think about how much you would
have to write in order to describe it. Would it take a sentence, a
paragraph, a few pages, a book, or many books? Count the number of
characters in the description. This is complexity.? --Yaneer Bar-Yam
?Making things works. Solving complex problems in a complex world?, p.
54. So, linear systems have simpler and shorter descriptions than
non-linear ones. And the same is true for centralized vs. decentralized
systems
Any thoughts? --Mikhail
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfredo CV <mailto:
[hidden email]>
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
<mailto:friam at redfish.com> Group
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
To decide if a phenomena is complex maybe It's necessary to identify
patterns of self organization in the "behavior" of the small units of
individual that conform the population of interest. Maybe It's necesary
to check the lack of centralized control and the existence of some
stable states. I think these three features are the diagnostic features
of complexity. I guess....
I don't know what Hayes says but I'll think about these three features
for health insurance, medicare, Social Security and Pensions in my
country... (in fact is not mine, belongs to the richest and the
multinationals.... anyhow).
Regards
Alfredo CV
health insurance,
Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the uninsured
Mikhail Gorelkin wrote:
+1: I guess that complexity cannot be expressed adequately even in a
term of computability. ? --Mikhail
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mikhail Gorelkin" <mailto:
[hidden email]>
<gorelkin at hotmail.com>
To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
<mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
Just two thoughts: 1) it seems that complexity is a more fundamental
category than linearity / non-linearity, which are parts of a
sophisticated ***formal*** system; 2) I assume there are types of
complexity (and, therefore, many - I mean really many - types)
that cannot be expressed in any formal system (beyond linearity /
non-linearity). Something like G?del's theorem. ? --Mikhail
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas Thompson" <mailto:
[hidden email]>
<nickthompson at earthlink.net>
To: <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
Alfredo,
Good question. In fact, the question of the day, for the Hayes talk.
Mysterious non linear effects in Hayes data leading to the conclusion
good
hearted efforts in one direction lead to the opposite result.
I guess "mysterious non-linearity" is a good clue that the phenomenon is
complex.
Nick .
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:12:09 -0500
From: Alfredo CV <mailto:
[hidden email]> <
[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] **today ** Lecture Wed Sep 12 12:30p: Jim Hayes -
Hedging Complex and Chaotic Private Health Insurance Markets and the
Uninsured
To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com, The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com>
Message-ID: <mailto:46EC1269.7080008 at gmx.net>
<46EC1269.7080008 at gmx.net>
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Hi
Of course it?s impossible to me to know details of the speeches you
usually have. In the distance I suppose that the first purpose of each
one of these speeches is to know and evaluate a broad type of cases
where complexity is used to understand phenomena. I wonder what makes
some phenomena suitable to be studied with a "complex" approach. What
must somebody take in consideration to decide that is studying a complex
phenomena?
Regards,
Alfredo CV
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