http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/When-is-something-complex-tp525080p525087.html
"emergent," "decentralized," etc. The best discussion of this I have
>
>
>
>
> It seems I found a more fundamental definition: "So, if you want to
> characterize the complexity of an object, think about how much you would
> have to write in order to describe it. Would it take a sentence, a
> paragraph, a few pages, a book, or many books? Count the number of
> characters in the description. This is complexity." --Yaneer Bar-Yam "Making
> things works. Solving complex problems in a complex world", p. 54. So,
> linear systems have simpler and shorter descriptions than non-linear ones.
> And the same is true for centralized vs. decentralized systems? Any
> thoughts? --Mikhail
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alfredo CV
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
>
>
>
> To decide if a phenomena is complex maybe It's necessary to identify
> patterns of self organization in the "behavior" of the small units of
> individual that conform the population of interest. Maybe It's necesary to
> check the lack of centralized control and the existence of some stable
> states. I think these three features are the diagnostic features of
> complexity. I guess....
>
> I don't know what Hayes says but I'll think about these three features for
> health insurance, medicare, Social Security and Pensions in my country...
> (in fact is not mine, belongs to the richest and the multinationals....
> anyhow).
>
> Regards
>
> Alfredo CV
>
>
> health insurance,
> Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the uninsured
>
>
> Mikhail Gorelkin wrote:
> +1: I guess that complexity cannot be expressed adequately even in a term of
> computability. ? --Mikhail
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mikhail Gorelkin" <gorelkin at hotmail.com>
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <friam at redfish.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
>
>
>
>
> Just two thoughts: 1) it seems that complexity is a more fundamental
> category than linearity / non-linearity, which are parts of a
> sophisticated ***formal*** system; 2) I assume there are types of complexity
> (and, therefore, many - I mean really many - types)
> that cannot be expressed in any formal system (beyond linearity /
> non-linearity). Something like G?del's theorem. ? --Mikhail
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] When is something complex
>
>
>
>
> Alfredo,
>
> Good question. In fact, the question of the day, for the Hayes talk.
>
> Mysterious non linear effects in Hayes data leading to the conclusion good
> hearted efforts in one direction lead to the opposite result.
>
> I guess "mysterious non-linearity" is a good clue that the phenomenon is
> complex.
>
> Nick .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:12:09 -0500
> From: Alfredo CV <agbioinfo at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] **today ** Lecture Wed Sep 12 12:30p: Jim Hayes -
> Hedging Complex and Chaotic Private Health Insurance Markets and the
> Uninsured
> To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com, The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
> Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <46EC1269.7080008 at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi
>
> Of course it?s impossible to me to know details of the speeches you
> usually have. In the distance I suppose that the first purpose of each
> one of these speeches is to know and evaluate a broad type of cases
> where complexity is used to understand phenomena. I wonder what makes
> some phenomena suitable to be studied with a "complex" approach. What
> must somebody take in consideration to decide that is studying a complex
> phenomena?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Alfredo CV
>
>
>
>
>
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
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> ________________________________
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> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
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"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris." - McGeorge Bundy