Posted by
Phil Henshaw-2 on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/bigger-plans-bigger-little-mistakes-tp523782p523824.html
Maybe the better approach is to look closely at the Clausius statement
of the 2nd law, and see what breadth of application has been ordinarily
accepted as consistent with it. It refers to an 'isolated system'.
No isolated systems actually exist but the principle is readily applied
to physical systems that are both nearly isolated, and various,
particularly thermal, equilibriums that are entirely unisolated. I
think the reason 'isolated system' is in the statement of the principle
is that it makes it easier to prove, not because concentrations left
alone in whatever kind of system will only be certain to disperse if
they are completely isolated. Isn't that correct?
Is there anything about the isolation of a system either necessary for
or by absence would invalidate the principle, or is it only that a lack
of isolation would invalidate the proof?
Isn't this a case where physics uses 'real categories (identifiable
which are not strictly definable except by the procedure of
identification, like 'apple') in applying a principle stated in terms of
abstract ideals?
-----Original Message-----
From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Robert Holmes
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:24 AM
To: the Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] bigger plans, bigger little mistakes
Phil,
I don't think that your reliance on the second law is correct. The
Clausius statement of the 2nd law is:
The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to
increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium.
The earth isn't an isolated system: the sun inputs energy. So I don't
think you can use the 2nd law.
Robert
On 4/29/07, Phil Henshaw <sy at synapse9.com> wrote:
Or somewhat equivalently, getting us to pay carbon taxes on what we
consume... To do that we'd need some way guess the carbon content (and
other earth insults) for products the manufacturer didn't provide
verifiable data for... and just as necessary, some believable plan for
using the money collected. *But* that too would still provide only
temporary relief!! The co2/$ ratio for total economic product (economic
efficiency) can only be reduced toward a positive limit and not toward
zero (real 2nd law).
Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
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