than a bunch of yes-no sparks. It might seem irrelevant but there's
never been any intelligence that didn't grow from a single sell. That's
nature is serving by making things that way. Something could be missing
in our model. Perhaps even more of a stretch, but a perfectly good
anyway? You and I wouldn't make things that way, ever. If you want to
680 Ft. Washington Ave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Louis
> Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems
> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 3:52 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
>
>
> Hi,
> There is also chemical feedback at the synapse such that the
> neuron can influence itself as to when the next transmission
> of nerotransmitter packet can be released. And The gap
> between polarization and depolarization along the neuron
> introduces a temporal importance as to the role a particular
> neuron will play within the network for any single set of
> information transmission.
>
> Lou
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
>
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I think I am with Doug on this one. Isn't it the case that through
> > the interweaving of dendrites neurons can effect their
> probabilities
> > of firing over substantial distance? So the "powers" of a neuron
> > include not only firing or not firing, but influencing analogically
> > the firing of other neurons through dendritic potentials.
> >
> > Or is this just old-fangled neurology?
> >
> > N
> >
> > Nicholas Thompson
> > nickthompson at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Date: 7/9/2006 12:00:16 PM
> > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 9
> > >
> > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > > friam at redfish.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > >
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > friam-request at redfish.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > friam-owner at redfish.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
> more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Google Trends - plus an unexpected(?) result
> (Bill Eldridge)
> > > 2. 100 billion neurons (Jochen Fromm)
> > > 3. Re: 100 billion neurons (doug)
> > > 4. Re: 100 billion neurons (Jochen Fromm)
> > > 5. Re: 100 billion neurons (Martin C. Martin)
> > > 6. Re: 100 billion neurons (Robert Cordingley)
> > > 7. Mexican Elections fraud (Carlos Gershenson)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:29:19 +0200
> > > From: Bill Eldridge <dcbill at volny.cz>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Google Trends - plus an unexpected(?) result
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <44B023AF.7070208 at volny.cz>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> > >
> > > Robert Holmes wrote:
> > > > Google now offer a product called Google Trends
> > > > (
http://www.google.com/trends) which aggregates
> peoples' searches by
> > > > city, region etc. It's been described as "a place holder for the
> > > > intentions of humankind ? a massive database of
> desires, needs, wants,
> > > > and likes that can be discovered, subpoenaed, archived,
> tracked, and
> > > > exploited to all sorts of ends." (From the New York Times
> > > >
> >
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05leonhardt.html?ex> =1152763200&en
> > =94404589c34afe7e&ei=5070&emc=eta1
> > > >
> >
> <
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/business/05leonhardt.html?e> x=1152763200&e
> > n=94404589c34afe7e&ei=5070&emc=eta1>)
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, just for fun I type in LANL. The "Cities" tab gives the
> > > > expected results:
> > > > 1. *Los Alamos*, NM, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. *Livermore*, CA, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. *Santa Fe*, NM, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 4. *Oak Ridge*, TN, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 5. *Albuquerque*, NM, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The "Regions" tab is altogether more intriguing.
> > > > 1. *Iran*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. *United States*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. *India*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Time to call our friends at Homeland Security?
> > > >
> > > Not until you make sure that "lanl" doesn't mean "holiday
> spice cake" in
> > > Persian ;-)
> > >
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> >
> /pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20060708/0b8ae453/att
> achment-0001.h
> > tml
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:03:10 +0200
> > > From: "Jochen Fromm" <fromm at vs.uni-kassel.de>
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <000001c6a2eb$11017400$19568a54 at Toshiba>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > > A typical human brain has about 100 billion
> (10^11=100.000.000.000)
> > neurons,
> > >
> > > but each neuron follows only very simple
> integrate-and-fire rules. If we
> > > distribute a comparatively simple program on 1.000.000
> machines (which
> is
> > > only a small fraction of the Internet, Google alone has
> between 50.000
> > and
> > > 100.000 machines, and SETI at home has over five million
> volunteers), and
> > each
> > > is responsible for the simulation of 100.000 neurons,
> then we come close
> > > to the capacity of the human brain. How long will it take
> until we can
> > > build such a system and connect it successfully to the real world
> > > (through a robot) or a realistic virtual world (through
> an agent) ?
> > > I guess it won't be long. As Greg Egan describes in his novel
> > > "Permutation City", at first the simulation may be much
> slower than
> > > reality, but enough computers are already there. What do
> you think ?
> > >
> > > -J.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:23:37 -0700
> > > From: "doug" <doug at dougcarmichael.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <000c01c6a2ed$ec7928f0$c56b7ad0$@com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > "A typical human brain has about 100 billion
> (10^11=100.000.000.000)
> > > neurons,
> > >
> > > but each neuron follows only very simple
> integrate-and-fire rules.'
> > >
> > > Comment: this implies a discrete ensemble of discrete
> events. But isn't
> > each
> > > neuron's likelihood of firing dependent on the solution
> in which it
> sits,
> > > the gradients of ions, and proximities to tier multiple
> firing neurons?
> > >
> > > In which case the brain is an infinite ensemble of an
> infinity of analog
> > > events.
> > >
> > > doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives,
> > > unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:53:31 +0200
> > > From: "Jochen Fromm" <fromm at vs.uni-kassel.de>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <000101c6a2f2$19cae330$19568a54 at Toshiba>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting remark, but I don't think it really works this way.
> > > It is not an infinite ensemble of an infinite number of
> analog events.
> > > A neuron fires or not - a boolean event - and spikes are certainly
> > > discrete events. The ion channels, the gradients of ions, and all
> > > the chemical substances are only the "hardware" of the brain. One
> > > could compare it to transistors, wires, etc. If the genes could
> > > produce transistors instead of proteins, they would perhaps use
> > > digital circuits. However, the interesting part seems to be the
> > > software, esp. the code which is used (if there is any). There
> > > are of course at least four different levels of modelling,
> > > from boolean networks and sigmoid networks to spiking networks,
> > > see Fig. 3 in
http://www.vs.uni-kassel.de/~fromm/Articles/LI.pdf> > >
> > > -J.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of doug
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:24 AM
> > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > >
> > > Comment: this implies a discrete ensemble of discrete
> events. But isn't
> > each
> > > neuron's likelihood of firing dependent on the solution
> in which it
> sits,
> > > the gradients of ions, and proximities to tier multiple
> firing neurons?
> > >
> > > In which case the brain is an infinite ensemble of an
> infinity of analog
> > > events.
> > >
> > > doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 5
> > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:15:48 -0400
> > > From: "Martin C. Martin" <martin at martincmartin.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <44B058C4.9000300 at martincmartin.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > >
> > > I suspect you'd like Hans Moravec's books:
> > >
> > >
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674576187> > >
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195136306> > >
> > > He uses Moore's law and estimates of the brain's
> computing power to
> > > calculate when we'll have human equivalence in "a
> computer." I forget
> > > the date, but it's not far. He also talks about a number of very
> > > interesting consequences of this.
> > >
> > > - Martin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 6
> > > Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:56:08 -0500
> > > From: Robert Cordingley <robert at cirrillian.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 100 billion neurons
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <44B08C68.3090500 at cirrillian.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > >
> > > I recollect that some years ago the AI community (at a
> AAAI conference I
> > > attended) claimed that each of the 10^11 neurons also had
> on average
> > > 10^4 connections resulting in a 10^15 computational 'size' for the
> > > brain. They also predicted we'd have a computer of
> similar power by
> > > 2015. Furrthermore it also stuck in my mind that 40% of
> the brain was
> > > claimed to be involved in vision (including reading). So these
> > > estimates lead one to think that it's going to be quite
> close to 2015
> > > before we have a system with just the power of human
> vision. Being able
> > > to program such a machine was not part of the discussion
> at the time,
> > > which is a big question to me.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Robert Cordingley
> > > www.cirrillian.com
> > >
> > > Martin C. Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > >I suspect you'd like Hans Moravec's books:
> > > >
> > > >
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0674576187> > > >
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195136306> > > >
> > > >He uses Moore's law and estimates of the brain's
> computing power to
> > > >calculate when we'll have human equivalence in "a
> computer." I forget
> > > >the date, but it's not far. He also talks about a number of very
> > > >interesting consequences of this.
> > > >
> > > >- Martin
> > > >
> > > >============================================================
> > > >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > > >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 7
> > > Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 15:51:21 +0200
> > > From: Carlos Gershenson <cgershen at vub.ac.be>
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] Mexican Elections fraud
> > > To: ECCO ECCO <evolcomp at listserv.vub.ac.be>, The Friday Morning
> > > Applied Complexity Coffee Group <Friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <7508A12F-CCA2-401B-97AF-D36C496E274F at vub.ac.be>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> > > format=flowed
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > This has not much to do with research, but I feel everybody should
> > > know...
> > >
>
http://complexes.blogspot.com/2006/07/mexican-presidential-election-> > > fraud.html
> > >
http://complexes.blogspot.com/2006/07/more-on-mexican-elections-> > > fraud.html
> > >
> > > And also
> > >
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/world/americas/09mexico.html> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Carlos Gershenson...
> > > Centrum Leo Apostel, Vrije Universiteit Brussel
> > > Krijgskundestraat 33. B-1160 Brussels, Belgium
> > >
http://homepages.vub.ac.be/~cgershen/> > >
> > > ?Tendencies tend to change...?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Friam mailing list
> > > Friam at redfish.com
> > >
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > >
> > >
> > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 9
> > > ************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org> >
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org>
>